 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-10-29 17:47
I've read all manner of guff surrounding the materials used for making this or that or other instrument - saxes getting the choice cuts, such as early MkVI saxes are made from spent artillery shells and MkVI tenors without a high F# key play much better than those with high F# keys fitted - so I think it's high time we fabricate a myth in the clarinet world.
So here goes - the special edition clear perspex Buffet B12s Schreiber made were made from recycled Messerschmidt canopies.
Feel free to fabricate your own and add it, then let's see how many are gullible to run with them!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-10-29 18:37
That's not their only myth!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-10-29 18:45
Twisting barrels and bells around to find the 'sweet spot' makes the Clarinet sound better.
Oh , hold on. That myth has been around for ages !
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2013-10-29 19:59
>Twisting barrels and bells around to find the 'sweet spot' makes the Clarinet sound better.
Oh , hold on. That myth has been around for ages !<
Well if the bore of the barrel is off center, it does make a difference.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-10-29 20:12
A recent study has demonstrated conclusively that clarinet barrels made from depleted uranium improve tone quality between 15 and 45%, depending on whether the player is left-handed or right-handed.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2013-10-29 20:26
Silver plated clarinets sound better than nickel plated:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=390626&t=83017
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-10-29 20:48
The ideal metal for ligatures is astatine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astatine. Unfortunately, it exists only a single atoms, and there is less than a gram of it in the earth's crust. Also, its most stable isotope has a half life of less than 12 hours. And it's extremely radioactive, so the heat it generates will vaporize it within a few seconds, killing you in the process. But oh boy, what a response you get for the last few minutes of your life!
On the other hand, rotating the barrel and bell do make a difference. Kalmen Opperman tested his barrels, rotating them 20 degrees at a time, to find the most resonant position. Then he inset a dot of mother-of-pearl to line up with the throat A key. I've done that on all my barrels, and it makes a definite, and reproducible, improvement. I've scratched a short mark in each barrel, lining up with the register key, to know the proper position.
The bell position also makes a difference. In a video from several hears back, Buffet had a well-known player play each Elite, rotate the bell to find the best position, and have the trademark stamped there. I put a tiny scratch in the wood to line up with the low E post.
For me, the effect is real, but even if it isn't, it's quick and free.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-10-29 20:52
Barrel and bell positions really DO make a difference. I've found that all my clarinets sound better when I install the barrel at the top of the instrument and the bell at the bottom. Besides, when you put the bell at the top there's no way to attach the mouthpiece, that's a problem I'm still working on.
Another fact: Hamilton-plated reeds last much longer, but only in Wisconsin for some reason.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-10-29 21:16
Mr. Shaw is right. Rotating the barrel and bell for the best sound does work because the bores need to be aligned. Even if they bore them in the factory with the barrel and upper joint together, the wood can shrink or expand to create a misalignment. The video of the Buffet factory shows a player testing them to align the parts before stamping the logo on them. No kidding!
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-10-29 22:43
1. Ligatures made from Unobtainium have a noticeable effect on tone and range, adding up to half an octave.
2. Red clarinets are measurably faster than black ones.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-10-30 03:14
I forgot to mention a myth generally begins thus:
"Apparently, ...."
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-10-30 03:15
"Mr. Shaw is right. Rotating the barrel and bell for the best sound does work because the bores need to be aligned. Even if they bore them in the factory with the barrel and upper joint together, the wood can shrink or expand to create a misalignment. The video of the Buffet factory shows a player testing them to align the parts before stamping the logo on them. No kidding!"
Chris said "Feel free to fabricate your own and add it, then let's see how many are gullible to run with them!"
Well there you go Chris , your right !
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-10-30 03:18
Mr. Shaw is right. Rotating the barrel and bell for the best sound does work because the bores need to be aligned. Even if they bore them in the factory with the barrel and upper joint together, the wood can shrink or expand to create a misalignment. The video of the Buffet factory shows a player testing them to align the parts before stamping the logo on them. No kidding!
On the other hand , if this really is true it's a very bad comment concerning the inherited instability of wood. Hand me down my hard rubber !
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Author: Fishamble
Date: 2013-10-30 10:06
Well apparently, the main reason that vintage hard rubber mouthpieces often sound so good is that certain types of hard rubber actually have a 'memory' of the sound that previous players made! It's amazing, but it's true.
It's to do with the way that the rubber molecules line up in relation to each other over time - we all know that rubber can be regarded as a highly viscous liquid (similar to tar, but even more viscous - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_drop_experiment). This was proved by analysis that unfortunately necessitated the destruction of some very fine mouthpieces, and it not likely to be repeated.
The more vintage a mouthpiece, naturally the greater the likelihood it was at some time played by someone with a really beautiful sound. That explains why not all vintage mouthpieces are excellent, and it also explains why new mouthpieces are never as good.
The modern custom mouthpiece makers all play-test while they're adjusting, and they're all fine players, which explains why their mouthpieces are generally better sounding.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-10-30 13:22
Iggy Genusa had the most beautiful sound of anybody, but everyone who tried his Chedeville said it was unplayable by anyone but him. Ralph Morgan used to keep a Chedeville on his work stand. I tried it once but could barely get a sound out of it.
But back to the myth: Every mouthpiece plays better with the reed on top. Obviously, everyone should switch. And Zbgnwzsz Furschlugginowski, the great soloist of the Smakmi Innamouf Philharmonic of Lower Slobbovia, built up the left side of his embouchure so that he could play with the reed to the side. That produced a spiral resonance in the bore that gave him his unique sound.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2013-10-30 14:01
"The YCL-CSG-H is the same clarinet [as the YCL-CSG] but with a ‘Hamilton’ plate finish on the keys. Hamilton plating consists of gold with some nickel and copper added. Many players find it darkens the sound while at the same time giving tonal clarity and projection. They feel it also helps create a creamy smooth texture to both the sound and the response."
Yamaha-ha-ha-ha
Chris
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2013-10-30 14:45
In fact read all of the myths, sorry, advances, yourself about the YCL-CSG:
http://www.yamaha.com/catalogs/PDFs/brochures/bno/YCLCSG_W229.pdf
The barrel is 10mm shorter to give a more balanced natural feeling response which adds focus to its tone
The grenadilla body has a natural finish externally which adds to the clarinet's tonal richness
The solid wood bell (I assume it does have a hole in it...) has no metal ring at its furthest extremity which preserves the natural warmth and resonance of the sound and improves playing flexibility (those pesky rings do rather impede the sound at the flare of the bell...)
As the advert says - "There has never been anything like this before"
Chris
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-10-30 15:46
The real secret to a nice dark tone is to play on a mouthpiece made of dark matter. Unfortunately, very few human beings can see dark matter. Those who claim they not only can see it but can manufacture mouthpieces from it often get stigmatized as cranks or accused of fraud. However, as any cat can tell you, some beings do possess the ability to perceive the dark side of the force.
See the early 20th century century writings of Professor Flibbert Tigibbet for instructions on how to perceive and play upon the mouthpieces he manufactured for certain pioneers of clarinet playing. Unfortunately, their use of dark matter mouthpieces eventually rendered the Professor and those musicians invisible and inaudible on Earth, but apparently quite a few of them have achieved remarkably attenuated life-spans ... elsewhere (and quite possibly elsewhen by now).
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2013-10-30 15:48)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-10-30 16:25
The best mouthpieces are made from the cores cut for the finger holes of bowling balls using hollow diamond drills. Nick Hovey told me this years ago.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-10-30 17:06
Apparently, soaking new Vandoren reeds in vinegar, then microwaving them for a minute each reed (or 1:30 for two in a 950w microwave or 1:50 in a 750w microwave) makes them play just like the golden era Vandoren reeds from 1956.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2013-10-30 17:15
If that idea came from another reed maker, I would say it was just sour grapes...
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2013-10-30 17:44
It's well known that Q-Series Selmer CTs represented the zenith of Selmer's accomplishment, and the finest Parisian large bore clarinets ever made.
Oops. I was supposed to write a myth.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2013-10-30 17:44
Try the new ollop adapters. Model A let's you use oboe reeds on your clarinet, model B let's you use bassoon reeds.
AAAClarinet
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2013-10-30 18:21
This one actually caused a student (K.B) to do this, and ruin his mouthpiece in College.
DOH!!!!!!!!
"Hard Rubber Mouthpieces aren't completely kiln finished, so put it in the oven at 200 for 15 minutes to finish the process".......
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-10-30 18:56
Lelia -
Shadow Cat is alive and well and living in the Dark Matter. Click your heels together three times and say "There's no place like home."
Ken Shaw
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2013-10-30 19:02
This is not a myth,
"The more you pay for a clarinet,the better it sounds."
The clarinet makers apparently believe this,so it must be true.
Who knows better than the company making clarinets more than hundred years!
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-10-30 19:50
>>Lelia -
Shadow Cat is alive and well and living in the Dark Matter. Click your heels together three times and say "There's no place like home."
Ken Shaw
>>
Jane Feline here, borrowing Lelia's brain for a moment. If she clicked her heels and said "There's no place like home," nothing would happen to Shadow Cat, but Lelia would suddenly find herself teleported to ... hmm, maybe I'd better not get into that, except to say that making mousepieces out of dark matter probably isn't such a good idea. My goodness, humans take a long time to type anything. So slow at everything --
At any rate, Shadow Cat was my Afterlife Guide. Unfortunately, she's as superstitious as ever, and continues to visit me telepathically with instructions and demands to carry on what she perceived as her vital work of destroying "screech-sticks" and their mousepieces.
For all her sanctimonious mioawage, she never actually managed to destroy a clarinet, mind you. She never even managed to roll one all the way down the stairs. It's true that she swatted one or two mousepieces all the way down but -- well, never mind about that. I make off with a mousepiece when I can get one because they're fun to bat around, but for Bast's sake -- they're inanimate objects! I don't damage them, at least not on purpose, because I like the sound of clarinets, especially the high notes.
And as for Shadow Cat's mad idea that clarinets are the minions of the Vacuum Cleaner Devil, all I can say is that as a kitten, I rode around on the vacuum cleaner every chance I could get and -- hello! -- no Devil! It's nothing but a machine. Quite an amusing machine, mind you. Unfortunately I got too big to perch on the sloped hood any more and I suppose riding around on it looked more dognified than dignified and all that, but it was fun at the time.
Making things out of dark matter, though -- just don't, okay?
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2013-10-30 20:59
Buffet-Crampon is The Sweetest Clarinet Ever Made
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-10-30 21:00
Koo said ""The more you pay for a clarinet,the better it sounds."
The clarinet makers apparently believe this,so it must be true.
Who knows better than the company making clarinets more than hundred years!"
At least it's good for business.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-10-30 21:38
Selmer clarinets are made for playing Jazz and Buffet clarinets are made for playing Classical.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-10-30 21:39
Everyone plays Buffet R13s.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2013-10-30 21:40
Metal clarinets are best utilized by turning them into lamps...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-10-30 22:06
Metal clarinets sound like soprano saxes.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2013-10-31 03:21
We know for a fact exactly how Mozart wanted his concerto played, and everyone follows his directions precisely, using the only published edition.
The wind quintet transcription of Cage's 4' 33" sounds completely different if you use the A clarinet instead of the Bb.
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Author: mihalis
Date: 2013-10-31 07:32
>Selmer clarinets are made for playing Jazz and Buffet clarinets are made for playing >Classical.
>Chris.
And some clarinets play a bit of Folk and a bit of Classical.
try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9390xDUuPuU
Mike.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-10-31 11:34
"The wind quintet transcription of Cage's 4' 33" sounds completely different if you use the A clarinet instead of the Bb."
Yes - A clarinets have definitely got a completely different sound to Bb clarinets! Whereas it's perfectly acceptable to use a soprano sax to play Bb clarinet parts if it makes things easier for you as no-one will be any the wiser, but use an A clarinet and everyone will notice the difference.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-10-31 12:41
The Mozart Concerto works MUCH better on tenor sax than on clarinet. (Even though he's not dead, Dan Leeson is spinning in his grave.)
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2013-10-31 12:42)
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2013-10-31 12:54
In 1995, Tom Ridenour while working to improve the design of the Leblanc Opus, changed the shape of the G# tone hole, making it slightly oval longitudinally. This was to compensate for the compromise position it has on the upper joint.
Once the new design was manufactured, initial feedback from prominent players suggested that the intonation was worse, although testing showed that players were continuing their embouchure compensation for the intonation despite the new design, and that with an unadjusted embouchure the intonation was actually better. Despite this, the design change was scrapped.
That was not until after 700 of the improved clarinets were manufactured and sold, however.
Apparently
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-10-31 13:38
They used an oval cross section drill to cut the oval C#/G# tonehole.
Apparently, all the top makers also use an oval cross section reamer to make the bores on their pro level wooden clarinets oval. However, they only use a cylindrical cross section reamer for plastics, ebonite and other composites.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-10-31 20:13
Chris P wrote :- Apparently, all the top makers also use an oval cross section reamer to make the bores on their pro level wooden clarinets oval. However, they only use a cylindrical cross section reamer for plastics, ebonite and other composites.
Somehow there's a kind of twisted truth hidden in that comment somewhere
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2013-10-31 23:19
Do not use your tuner. Apparently, the National Security Agency has placed detectors inside that report your clarinet intonation tendencies. This incriminating information will be used against you when they round up everyone attending ClarinetFest 2019.
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-11-01 13:44
And Hard Rubber (Ebonite) clarinets sound the best of all!
Really...............
Gary K
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Author: acermak
Date: 2013-11-01 14:32
The French have so many good clarinet makers because the French have been playing clarinets and clarinet like objects since before they were Gauls.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-11-01 15:35
Anton Stadler made the first recording of the Mozart Clarinet Concerto. There were five copies. These have all apparently been lost though some believe Dieter Klocker was very close to finding one at the time of his death.
BTW, Stadler never actually owned a basset clarinet though he owned three basset hounds named La, Siflat and Ut.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-11-01 19:37
On certain modern clarinets, the so-called register key tube is really a transmission device that enables specially-trained spies posing as clarinet players to send secret coded messages via alt-altissimo. A contractor developed this equipment as a way of avoiding the use of easily-hacked telephones or the Internet. These spies learn to play alt-altissimo at a pitch higher than normal altissimo and too high for human ears to pick it up. If your dog howls and your cat runs away when you play certain notes, you've probably got a spy-clarinet. They do make it into the retail shops by mistake now and then and sometimes turn up on the used market (and you don't want to know how they got there ...).
At a concert, you may notice a clarinet player who appears to be playing even though you don't hear him or her amongst the other instruments. Look around the audience. You may see someone who's *not* wearing earphones, with a little gleam of metal that might or might not be a tie tac or a pendant or some other jewelry, with a wire extending down from the "jewelry" into a bulging pocket. Uh-huh ....
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2013-11-01 19:38)
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2013-11-01 19:37
Eeefer players need on average, more than 33% more lung efficiency than 'usual' clarinet players.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-11-01 21:55
Eeeeeeefer players need on average, more than 33% less lung capacity than 'usual' clarinet players.
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2013-11-01 21:56)
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Author: mihalis
Date: 2013-11-01 22:24
Mediocre Wooden Clarinet players sound just as good as experts on plastic ones.......(or even better.)
Really ..........
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Author: Ed
Date: 2013-11-02 15:03
Quote:
Mediocre Wooden Clarinet players.......
I have known players whose lack of expression made me think they were wooden.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2013-11-02 20:07
Clarinets are typically classified in four levels: beginner, intermediate, performer, top-line. Beginner clarinets are almost always made of high-grade plastic. Plastic is appropriate for beginners because it’s durable and quality of the tone is not as important at this stage as learning to play the correct note. In addition, beginner clarinets are small bore, requiring less effort to play but producing a thinner tone. Occasionally an audience member may confuse it for a kazoo.
Intermediate, performer, and top-line clarinets provide a darker, fuller sound because they are made of wood and their larger bore creates a bigger sound. The difference in tone between a plastic clarinet and a wood clarinet is substantial and always noticeable, even by your neighbors.
While all step-up clarinets are made of grenadilla wood, performer and top-line models are made with wood that is aged longer, sometimes as much as 11 years. This makes the clarinet more stable and less likely to develop cracks as well as allows it to produce a fuller tone. In addition, the better clarinets usually get more custom adjustment by the master instrument builders, especially in tone-hole undercutting and other fine adjustments that affect the intonation and response of the clarinet. On some models very high quality springs are used to make the key action as quick and effortless as possible. Gold springs, though they could improve tone by their material, are not advised to use if actually playing the instrument.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-11-03 00:17
Wearing a silver belt buckle reflects vibrations coming through the bell, giving you a more youthful sound.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Late_returner
Date: 2013-11-03 07:57
Myth 1
The records of Frederick Thurston playing the Finzi and Benny Goodman playing the Copland concertos are regarded as absolutely definitive and no clarinettist would dream of adding their own interpretation to versions put down by the master clarinettist dedicatees after prolonged consultation with the composers.
Myth 2
A shadowy organisation has bought up for destruction the master record and all copies of Stadler playing the Mozart concerto, with Mozart discussing phrasing and dymanics, made via the the da Vinci Jukebox drawings. A spokesman for 6Ms ( My Mastery Makes Mozart More Musical ) said “we don’t want the Mozart to go the way of the Finzi, and anyway why does Mozart have a Chinese accent”
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Author: donald
Date: 2013-11-03 09:09
(hang on, there's a recording of Thurston playing the Finzi????!!!!!)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-11-03 10:03
Apparently Buffet are about to produce a range of Chinese-built Greenline Kazoos.
Tony F.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-11-03 21:22
Rub your reeds with cigarette ashes to make them last longer was noted in the 1950s. However, if you smoked at that time, you could be gone by now!
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The Clarinet Pages
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