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 Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind
Author: Tony Pay 2017
Date:   2013-07-14 23:42

I have several times mentioned Gregory Bateson on this BBoard. I now find with great delight that the complete text of his Steps to an Ecology of Mind is now available on the web. (Click on the link.)

The essay that particularly interested me -- and what I've described as "the best attempt to describe what we do, leaving the mystery of it unobscured" -- is called, 'Style, Grace and Information in Primitive Art'.

There is also an interesting slant on the current thread on 'self-promotion' to be found in the essay called, 'Morale and National Character'. It may explain to me something of why I, an Englishman, find such self-promotion to be somewhat distasteful.

But I'd say it's all fascinating.

Tony



Post Edited (2013-07-15 00:48)

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 Re: Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind
Author: BobD 
Date:   2013-07-15 12:32

As we used to say, Tony, "There's more than one way to skin a cat"

Bob Draznik

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 Re: Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind
Author: rtmyth 
Date:   2013-07-15 14:00

Published by Ballantine Press; readily available. A genius. by any measure

richard smith

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 Re: Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind
Author: Tony Pay 2017
Date:   2013-07-15 15:14

>> Published by Ballantine Press; readily available.>>

Yes, I have 2 copies, and have given several away:-)

The upside of the web version is that you can easily quote by copy and paste.

Eg, apropos the 'end-linkage' idea in the second essay I mentioned, I can easily quote (not from the essay but from Bateson's summarising commentary on the part of the book in which it appears):
Quote:

In 1942 many of us were interested in "national character" and the contrast between England and America fortunately brought into focus the fact that "spectatorship" is in England a filial characteristic, linked with dependency and submission, while in America spectatorship is a parental characteristic linked with dominance and succoring.

This hypothesis, which I called "end-linkage," marked a turning point in my thinking. From that time on, I have consciously focused upon the qualitative structure of contexts rather than upon intensity of interaction. Above all, the phenomena of endlinkage showed that contextual structures could themselves be messages—an important point which is not made in the 1942 article. An Englishman when he is applauding another is indicating or signaling potential submission and/or dependency; when he shows off or demands spectatorship, he is signaling dominance or superiority; and so on. Every Englishman who writes a book must be guilty of this. For the American, the converse must hold. His boasting is but a bid for quasiparental approval.

Tony



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 Re: Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind
Author: rtmyth 
Date:   2013-07-15 15:37

It's not the words but the context and words. Dennett gives many examples in his new book.

richard smith

Post Edited (2013-07-15 15:40)

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 Re: Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind
Author: Tony Pay 2017
Date:   2013-07-15 15:40

...and when you play, it's not the notes but the notes in the context.

But, what did you mean?

Tony

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 Re: Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind
Author: Ken Shaw 2017
Date:   2013-07-15 19:25

The book is 535 pages long. Can you point out particularly enlightening sections?

Ken Shaw

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 Re: Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind
Author: Tony Pay 2017
Date:   2013-07-15 19:47

These are all hyperlinked:

Introduction p1

Morale and National Character p98

Style, Grace and Information in Primitive Art p137 (the Balinese painting discussed is the second page in the book)

A Theory of Play and Fantasy p183

Double Bind p 276

The Cybernetics of Self -- a Theory of Alcoholism p315

Form, Substance and Difference p455 (I'd say this is the fundamental one).

Tony

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 Re: Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind
Author: Tony Pay 2017
Date:   2013-07-16 15:52

I should have added:

The Logical Categories of Learning and Communication p284

One irritation about this document is that it contains too many typos, and is missing some important figures, eg in 'A Theory of Play and Fantasy'.

Tony

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