 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Joarkh
Date: 2009-04-07 10:03
Read about this clarinet at Bliss' website (http://www.julianbliss.com/instruments.html). Has anyone here tried these? In that case, what is your experience? How is the synthetic material compared to wood or other synthetic clarinets? How do you find it compared to other clarinets?
My first thought when seeing the price (825$ at some retailers) was: How can these be as good as my Festivals? Of course, I wouldn't know whether they are or not as I haven't tried a Bliss clarinet, and I am not saying that they are not as good. I don't know if they are, but would like to hear other people's opinions.
I guess what I'm bringing up in the end here is whether cheap, synthetic clarinets can be as good as expensive, wooden ones (Tom Ridenour's website advocates that they can be), but what I foremost want is to hear the opinions of those of you who have tried the Bliss clarinets.
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-04-07 15:01
Haven't tried the Bliss, but I had one of the other leblanc/Backun clarinets for a while, the Cadenza, and it compared quite favorable with R13 series Buffets. The acoustical design of the Bliss models should be similar, so they should play well. Only you can be the judge about how good an individual instrumnet is. Note that this is the lowest priced of the three in tjhe line. The next model up has the Backun wooden barrel, which will make a difference IMHO.
FYI, I also own a Ridenour Lyrique, which I got this January, and I am quite pleased wihth the instrument. It plays quite well, and I have received numerous favorable comments on my sound using the instrument. The mouthpiece that came with it wasn't exactly my choice, but the instrument sounds great with either my Greg Smith or Walter Grabler mouthppiece on it.
Jeff
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-04-07 18:09
I just tried a bunch of them. Generally I thought they were decent, good even. They are on the free-blowing side which is common to many student models. I didn't think they were as good as some other (mostly professional) models that I like much better, but I also think the same about other professional models.... and this is personal preferance anyway, and comments about tone, etc. won't help because of that.
On the technical side, they seemed like they are built pretty good (from rough checking, since I couldn't check more than that). The F/C lever-to-key linkage wasn't great, and so was the bridge key, but they are pretty much the same on just about every clarinet. At least some other clarinets are worse.
They also have (black) Valentino pads which I don't especially like but it wouldn't significantly discourage me from buying it. The usual key plating is black which of course doesn't really matter, just cosmetics, and depends if you like it (I didn't like it much, but again, not an important issue anyway).
The only thing that I really didn't like was something called PRAG. This is a system of aligning the the main body parts, a small pin that slides into a cut area. It has less freedom when assembling the clarinet, since you have to be accurate in sliding it into place. When disassembling it is can also be a little risky maybe with someone who isn't so careful.
In addition the alignment of the joints which you must have with this PRAG system is not what I would choose personally. Maybe others like this exact relationship between the hands though.
Overall I think this clarient is fine for a student or anyone who want to play but I also think the same about a few other student models.
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2009-04-07 19:27
Saw Julian himself playing one of these picked at random from a display of about 8-10 of them at the January NAMM show. Noone could find any fault with what was heard by myself and other pros nearby- some of my colleagues and I thought they were the equal of any clarinet we tried at the show ( and we tried them all!)........Julian was glad to explain that he and Morrie Backun worked hard to make an affordable instrument that was as good or better than the rest of the top quality horns. IMHO, they have succeeded!!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2009-04-08 23:33
The Prag system has been around on Leblanc's Vitos for years. It's just a good system for kids just learning to put the instrument together. It's not necessary for those of us with lots of experience.
Also, bear in mind it isn't designed for professionals, although we can get some good out of it in an outdoor setting, etc. It's really a student instrument.
I've not personally tried one, but would love to do so without having to buy one first. I think it would be the one I would get for my granddaughter to begin clarinet.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-04-09 05:28
I know the advantages of the PRAG and what it was designed for. I just think the disadvantages outweight them because first, the last problem I mentioned, forcing a specific alignment, and second, I've never seen alignment being a problem for any kid when they assemble their clarinets.
But don't misinterpret my post and think just because I find problems that I think it's a bad clarinet or that I don't recommend it. I consider these problems simply something to accept and then anyone can decide if they are an important issue to them or not.
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2009-04-09 13:13
Jeff wrote:
>FYI, I also own a Ridenour Lyrique, which I got this January, and I am quite >pleased wihth the instrument. It plays quite well, and I have received >numerous favorable comments on my sound using the instrument. The >mouthpiece that came with it wasn't exactly my choice, but the instrument >sounds great with either my Greg Smith or Walter Grabler mouthppiece on it.
Just curious. Have you played it with barrels other than those it came with? If so what is the effect (question inspired by your comment that the wooden Backun barrel on the next model up from the Bliss made a difference)?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-04-09 18:15
I haven't actually used different barrels on the Lyrique, as I liked the tone it produced without resorting to the aftermarket. The Lyrique comes with two barrels in different lengths.
I have a Buffet/Muncy barrel that I have used with several of my woodies, and it improves their sound and intonation compared to the stock barrels. Right now, a friend of my daughter is borrowing the Evette that I have the Muncy in the case for, so I haven't asked for it back. When it gets back, I will check it out on the Lyrique.
I have owned a Leblanc Cadenza (also a Backun instrument) and it came with 2 barrels: a 66 mm grenadilla and a 65 mm cocobollo). Each sounded different on the instrument, but both had great tone characteristics with that particular clarinet.
Jeff
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2009-06-16 21:11
My personal conclusion about the Bliss when compared to the Cadenza, (mind you, limited because I am a novice), is that they both convey the same kind of 'tactile' response, with the Cadenza only a slight bit more reserved and tad less forgiving/more precise in its tonal response. It seems to me that as it is, the Bliss is easily 90% the Cadenza and it will take a player of specific needs to use the Cadenza.
The keyworks are light and I've no doubt in my mind that "Flight of the Bumblebees" is not a joke should capable hands be at the helm of this horn.
Both instruments astonish me. Cadenza is a sweet deal while the Bliss to me is almost a guilty pleasure and... it will spoil those new to Clarinet.
I have had the fortune of visiting maestro Backun himself today, actually only a few hours ago, where I caught glimpse of the prototype Bliss Grenadilla LB210. Based on what I have experienced after auditioning the Cadenza and the composite LB310/LB320, this all-wood variation of Bliss clarinet will voice itself at par to a Cadenza, while being brighter and featuring keywork friendly to even that of us novice.
As a matter of fact, I have asked if there will exist a wooden bell upgrade kit on sales for the Bliss composite models. The results straight from the horse's mouth is that it will happen. One can also use a Backun bell on the Bliss apparently.
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Author: justme
Date: 2009-06-16 23:11
JJAlbrecht said: " FYI, I also own a Ridenour Lyrique, which I got this January, and I am quite pleased wihth the instrument. It plays quite well, and I have received numerous favorable comments on my sound using the instrument. The mouthpiece that came with it wasn't exactly my choice, but the instrument sounds great with either my Greg Smith or Walter Grabler mouthppiece on it."
I'm just wondering...
Did you receive the clarinet with just the "regular" mouthpiece, or did you get it with the RE 10 or even the much better professional mouthpieces that he makes such as the RZ or RA with either MT-36 or T-40 facings, or perhaps his HW pro mouthpiece?
Because those mouthpieces can also make a difference over the "regular" mouthpiece that he also sells with his pro model clarinets.
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-02-18 08:29
Kia ora
Today I spent 45min in a music shop comparing several clarinets on behalf of a student who was considering an E11 and wanted advice on other models in the same price range. I had my Buffet Festival (overhauled with Cork and Valentino) on the ready for comparison.
Two of the clarinets i tried out were Backun/Bliss models- one the "all plastic" model, and one the "all wood" model. I was stunned by how good the plastic one was compared to student clarinets in the same price range. It was, as noted above, very free blowing (this was also noted by another pro musician who happened to be in the store at the time) with a very even tone and resistance. The intonation was very good compared to professional clarinets, and far superior to instruments in the "budget range" only a few hundred dollars cheaper.
If i was stuck on a desert island and this was my only clarinet, it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world. I felt that for it's price it offered great value for money, and a student learning on this instrument would definitely have an advantage over students playing the majority of student instruments i encounter on a daily basis.
dn
ps the Bliss wooden clarinet, at nearly twice the price the plastic one, seemed to draw even with the Schreiber wooden clarinet that was in a similar price range. The Schreiber, with a wrap around register key, really impressed me with the even sound and response between throat B flat and middle line B.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-02-18 11:32
FWIW- I tried on of the Bliss plastic models recently, as I have a student who has one. While it was good, I greatly preferred the feel and tone on one of the Yamaha plastic models. It is great that there are a couple of really good options out there for the student player.
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Author: Bill Patry
Date: 2010-02-18 11:41
My 8 year old daughter has a wooden Bliss. I have a Leblanc Legacy, and I frequently do comparisons between the two as we practice. The Bliss compares very well given the price difference. The comparison is a bit distorted though because she has a MoBa cocobollo bell which made a big improvement and a fat boy MoBa barrel, which also helped. Without these two tweaks, the Bliss was a very very good student model (and I love the backback case it came in for her).
I like the PRAG system for my daughter because she is less likely to bend keys in putting the joints together. The Bliss is at 442, though, I think because of the belief that kids tend to play flat, but you should be aware of the tuning.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-02-18 13:36
Just me:
I didn't go to extra expense for one of Tom's higher-level mouthpieces, as I have two nice pieces already that I am quite happy with: a Gregory Smith Chedeville and a Walter Grabner K13. I was trying to keep expenses down, so I took what Tom supplied with the clarinet. As it was, I got a great deal regardless of the mouthpiece, as I boutht it when the 576 was on his pre-Christmas sale back in December of '08.
Jeff
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2010-02-19 14:16
I recently had the opportunity to see a Bliss wood clarinet for the first time, and I'm going to ask if I can try it out. I examined the wood very closely, and noticed a couple very shallow grooves in it. They barely went below the surface, and they were only noticeable if I held it close to my eyes.
Is LeBlanc using a slightly inferior grade of wood on these intruments to keep the cost down? If so, is this clarinet more likely to crack in the future?
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-06-25 10:03
Kia ora
Since I made this posting I have taught (and coached chamber music at high school level) a number of students playing the Bliss Plastic and Wooden student clarinets. A couple of those students bought the instrument on my advice. After a few months (we are now halfway through the NZ academic year) a few point have come to light....
- On the wooden Bliss model, a number of instruments seem to have a very unusual intonation flaw. Middle line B natural is flat. Very flat. The two instruments I have inspected/play tested in lesson both had acceptable intonation over the rest of the range, but this one note was about 15c flat (and it appeared not to be because of register key blockage or clearance issues). I then played the same model off the shelf (in the local store that imports all NZs high end instruments) and found the same problem. Odd.
- One wooden Bliss clarinet has had severe problems with joints swelling. This has been rectified by the retailers repair shop twice already, and today problems returned. The bell tenon (that had not previously had any issues) swelled up so that the bell could not be fitted- and the student instead played the lesson with my Festival Bell on her clarinet. The Bliss bell went on my Festival with no problems (and did not, incidentally, improve my tone OR cause middle line B to be flat).
At the end of the lesson we tried the Bliss bell on the Bliss clarinet again, and it fitted. This amount of swelling/shrinking within a 30min period is alarming. I have many times experienced problems with joints but never to the extent of this instrument (centre joint needing resizing 3 times now!). This student, btw, is very careful about cleaning the instrument and always clears moisture out of the joints after playing. This does appear to be a problem with only one out of 5 Bliss clarinets I see on a weekly basis, and I actually feel inclined to ask the shop to replace this instrument with another.
- The keys are well made and fitted, but not actually that strong for a student instrument (though clearly far superior to those on cheap garbage). The left hand f#/c# key doesn't need much mistreatment before it's routinely hitting the L f/c, and the Right hand f/c was easily bent out of adjustment (by a tech trying to separate the joints!). I don't believe this to be a major issue, but for the more irresponsible (moronic) students the keys on a number of other brands are certainly more robust.
I would be interested if any other teachers have any comments/observations about these clarinets. In many respects they are excellent instruments.
dn
Post Edited (2010-07-03 23:22)
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Author: Dan
Date: 2010-06-25 17:09
I purchased the Bliss 310 about a year ago, and I love it. Previously I owned/played a used (Ebay) Selmer CL200.
I've been playing approximately four years. A couple of months ago, I played in a group, Kadima Music Conservatory. It was my first orchestra/group playing experience. While I missed notes and lost time, the consistent compliment I received from conductors (we had a guest conductor) and fellow clarinetist was "good tone".
My experience is limited; nevertheless, for the price, quality, tone and playing experience, I endorse the Bliss.
While I'm posting, a big "Thank You" goes to this forum and the people who have responded to my questions, as well as the hundred of other posting I have read these past years.
Thanks, Dan
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Author: RyanD
Date: 2011-09-02 21:08
Would this be a good instrument to use outside during pepband
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Author: Joe Bloke
Date: 2011-09-02 23:27
@donald - "- One wooden Bliss clarinet has had severe problems with joints swelling."
Had a similar problem where the upper and lower joints fit together. Two things rectified the problem. 1/ I had a tech take about 1/1000" off the upper joint tenon. 2/ Keeping the bore oiled, especially during the break-in period (the bore was super dry when I received the instrument so, really subject to moisture and swelling).
Also, see Leblanc's website for break-in procedure. As I recall, they advise; don't play the instrument for more than 15 minutes each day for a couple of weeks.
With the MoBa barrel, the horn sounds great!
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Author: donald
Date: 2011-09-03 01:14
!) this happened to ALL the joints and WAS attended to by a competent repair person, multiple times. Two of the wooden Leblanc/Backun/Bliss clarinets i see on a weekly basis had this problem in the last 3 years, out of 9 or 10 in total. In the 12 years I've been teaching here since i returned from USA this level of swelling has been evident in only 1 or 2 clarinets (out of hundreds) of other brands.
Of course, this is purely anecdotal, and of moot interest now as these clarinets are no longer produced (I understand they have been replaced by the new Bliss model sans Backun).
dn
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Author: RyanD
Date: 2011-09-03 14:24
After trying all the models of composite instruments my music store had. Including some jupitars a yamaha 200 and a selmer i found the bliss hybrid to be the best one. However it is shaper than a fine knife.
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Author: RandaRae2012
Date: 2013-01-03 01:02
I noticed that you seem to have a large amount of knowledge about LeBlanc Bliss clarinets and I have a question.
I bought one around Halloween time last year and I got the one with the black nickel plated keys. I absolutely love the sound quality and how easy it is to play. However, the finish on the keys is coming off! I can see the silver on most of my keys and it just looks terrible. I had contacted the store I bought it from and the warranty has run out.
What would it take to strip the black nickel finish off completely? Would it be extremely expensive? Where can I get this done?
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Author: donald
Date: 2013-01-03 02:36
I don't know how much it would cost to strip the plating off, but i'm sure someone can tell you. I can however verify that the plating has worn on most of the black nickel plated clarinets my students own, so it's not just that your clarinet is defective in some way. dn
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2013-01-03 23:16
I'm not familiar with black nickel plating on keys, though I've seen it on a few sax bodies. I have only seen one Bliss clarinet in my shop and it didn't have black keys. Nickel is normally very durable. Is it coming off just where you touch, or other places as well? Other instruments get key wear but we just don't notice it as much. Plating seems to have gotten much thinner these days and the plating on some of the Asian instruments is atrocious. If these keys are from Asia then that may part of the issue.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Taras12
Date: 2013-02-14 03:15
I just received my Bliss L310NS, the nickle-silver model. It does not have the sleek black plating, but I've heard that the black plating is sensitive to the acidity of your finger oils and sweat.
I'm a beginner (at age 57) and love the response of the keys and the tone that I can achieve. I did replace the mouthpiece and ligature with a M30 by VanDoren and Rovner Dark. The original mouthpiece and ligature give a very bright sound. For me, the composite material is light and I don't have to worry about the Montana dry air causing expansion/contraction/splitting problems.
Tristan
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