 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Karl Wentzel
Date: 2001-03-14 21:52
A clarinet-collegue at my school wants to "give" me a student, because he is not suitable for clarinet playing. He has a to much "overbite" (the lower jaw bites behind the upper jaw too much)
I am oboist, and my experience is, that if somebody really wants to play an instrument, he even can do this with missing fingers (Django Reinhard) or a serious illness (Michael Petrucciani).
My question is: Is it normal that clarinetists select their 11 year old students in this way, or should I look for more details on this decision?
Please dont hesitate to answer me to wentzel@wentzel.com
Thank you!
Regards from Germany -
Karl.
www.karl.wentzel.com
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-03-14 22:17
Most clarinetists have an overbite--if not when they start, certainly after they've played a while. I've heard about wonderful players who had terrible overbites. I think I'd check into what may be "behind" this teacher's rejection of this student. And I agree that if the student wants to play a certain instrument he will certainly do better than if denied that opportunity.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2001-03-14 22:39
Where there's a will, there's a way! If he strongly wants to play a clarinet he will find a way. Even better if he has good guidance, encouragement, etc.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-03-14 23:16
Besides that overbites and underbites can be compensated for in how the student holds the instrument. If he/she has an overbite, the clarinet should be held closer to the body (i.e. less angle between body and clarinet). In the case of an underbite, the student merely needs to increase the angle between the body and the instrument. This allows a proper embouchure to be formed with a good relationship of the upper and lower jaw positions relative to the mouthpiece.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-03-15 01:53
It is caused somewhat by the unsymmetrical(upper vs lower) shape of clarinet mouthpiece beek not necessarily by the players physical conditions IMHO.
I would suggest you to read Keith Stein's 'Art of Clarinet Playing' to know
how ordinary amateurs tend to hold the mouthpieces with their mouths
and how the right way should be teached and practiced (it is shown by 'wrong' and 'good' pictures of Keith Stein). Overbite means also too much jaw or teeth
force. Keith Stein also recommends its remedy by a tentative use of double-lip
embouchure(many European people use this), which might be helpful too.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-03-15 12:08
Anybody can overcome any shape of jaw. A group of beginners could easily be taught with the mouthpiece upside down for that matter. It's just more difficult to tongue.
I have a book with photos of the embouchures of about 25 accomplished flute players. Not one of them could be considered "normal", and most are compensating for a lip idiosyncrasy, eg by closing the centre of the lips and blowing out the side.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-03-15 17:13
Bernard Portnoy has a severe underbite. He was principal in the Philadelphia Orchestra. He just holds the clarinet more vertically than most people to make up for it. If a student has talent and desire, forget about jaw shape.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-03-15 18:47
"Dumping" students is a form of "Cherry-Picking", wherein staff stack the roster with promising players and claim advancing success.
If I were the director of your program, I would want to know about this.
Sounds like you have a slacker on your team.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-03-15 21:52
I would also like to add several comments.
1) Judging a student's aptitude for something when they are 11 years old is inaccurate at best.
2) There have been many successful people who had "no aptitude" for their chosen field but through persistance and training ending up outshining those with natural talent. Two opera singers from before the 1960s, Franco Corelli and Magda Olivera, were both told by their early vocal coaches that they would never succeed as opera singers according to biographical articles in "Opera News". Yet in their heyday were regarded as two of the best around. When I used to teach martial arts, I saw many students with natural ability who expected to get by on that ability without devoting their efforts to the necessary training. In the end, they lost out to those with dedication.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-03-16 14:23
Well said, Dee.
I taught many beginner flute & clarinet classes. At one school there were only 4 flutes available for about 80 hopeful learners so I administered the Bentley musical aptitude test to find the chosen 4. This was the least successful class I ever taught. The test did not measure interest and perseverence.
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Author: jerry
Date: 2001-03-16 23:32
"When I used to teach martial arts...."
All right Dee! Does this mean that if I study clarinet under you, I will learn how to slap my clarinet around, without leaving a mark on it, when I get totally frustrated?
~ jerry
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Author: Willie
Date: 2001-03-17 03:24
In one of last years "Flute talk" magazines there was a lady who was told she would never ever be able to play the flute as she had a "tear drop lip". She's now one of the top Flautists in the country now.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-03-18 02:26
jerry wrote:
>
>"When I used to teach martial arts...."
>
> All right Dee! Does this mean that if I study clarinet under
> you, I will learn how to slap my clarinet around, without
> leaving a mark on it, when I get totally frustrated?
>
> ~ jerry
Actually the key elements that would be taught in this situation are meditation, self-discipline, and the appropriateness of the proposed response to the situation. Peace, grasshopper.
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Author: jerry
Date: 2001-03-18 12:05
"...meditation, self-discipline, and the appropriateness of the proposed response to the situation. Peace, grasshopper."
DEE:
No wonder I could never break all those bricks, ouch!. There must be a little self-discipline there - I haven't wrapped my CL around a flag pole yet. No. Wait. Flag pole? That's for golf clubs.
What else could you do to have this much fun and meet this many nice people?
Now, if I could just learn to count - one, and-a-two, three, four............
~ jerry
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