 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jeff Morasco
Date: 2012-11-26 19:29
I am an old new learner and understand that some clarinets have more resistance than others, (using the same mouth piece and barrel.) Which horns have more resistance and which are more free flowing? What are the advantages and disadvantages? Thanks in advance.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2012-11-26 20:17
Tom Ridenour can help you on this topix, which is complex.
richard smith
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2012-11-26 22:50
To be honest if you are a new learner you shouldn't be even thinking about this, it's rather like a learner driver enquiring about advanced skid pan tactics.
At this stage you just want to get a good starter set-up (e.g. a good student clarinet and decent student mouthpiece) and start learning to play them.
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2012-11-26 23:38
Not to argue, Norman, but perhaps he doesn't wish to have to buy a student clarinet, then later when he's more advanced, have to buy a professional grade instrument.
Woodworking is another hobby of mine, and more than a few times I have bought a cheap tool, only to have to buy a better, more expensive one later.
CarlT
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-11-27 01:01
The problem is that, like many other playing characteristics of the equipment clarinetists (and other instrumentalists) use, resistance preference is a very personal issue. No one wants to play on a setup that's stuffy and clearly unresponsive, but within acceptable bounds everyone's taste is different. And any one player may change his mind more than once in a lifetime of playing.
Carl's idea about getting high quality equipment at the start is good if you can afford the expense, but the level of resistance is still something that isn't likely to be meaningful to a beginner. If you play on several clarinets of different brands and models within those brands and one just feels more comfortable than the others, whether the difference is resistance, key layout or something you just can't quite identify, you may just as well go with that one and use it to learn to play. You won't really go wrong with any of the major brands, however strongly players here or elsewhere lobby for one or another specific instrument.
Karl
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Author: Jeff Morasco
Date: 2012-11-27 14:02
I actually have a new Arioso which I have been playing for about a year and recently picked up a cheap student clarinet. I find the Arioso to be more resistant, and I presume that is intentional. So my question is partially motivated by wondering why make a clarinet more resistant? I think that I prefer one that is less resistant and was looking for guidance for N +1. Jeff
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-11-27 14:35
A certain amount of resistance allows the player to be more active in controlling the resultant sound. A very free-blowing setup can be harder to control and may not be capable of the same power as a more resistant one. Everyone has his/her own idea about how much resistance is ideal, which is why so much variety is available in instruments, reeds, mouthpieces, even barrels. But, again, a lot of resistance to the point of stuffiness or unresponsiveness is no one's idea of an advantage and indicates that something's wrong with the instrument. Are you sure the Arioso isn't leaking somewhere?
Karl
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Author: reed and MP dude
Date: 2012-11-27 14:47
The most open clarinets I've played are the selmers 9 and 10 series. If you don't mind a used one the 10G is very open. If $ isn't an issue check out the new Selmers. They run around $2500 and up.
The series 10's, mainly the 10G can be found on ebay for $500 to $700 or so. I love the key work on these horns. They feel really good, compared to Buffets.
Before buying anything maybe your mouthpiece needs some adjustments along with some leaky pads on your clarinet.
A and Bb r13's new.
Bb r13 1963 backup
Vandoren 56
Ciaccia custom mouthpiece
1.07mm facing amazing mouthpiece
2 Kaspers as spares
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2012-11-28 18:26
Tom ridenour actually includes a chapter in his book on clarinet diiscussing these very ideas. The book is inexpensive, and extremely informative., Worth the investment of time and money to get a copy and read it! You canorder the book from his website. http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Clarnetamaphone
Date: 2012-11-28 18:58
Richard,
My son alerted me to your post on the bulletin board. Im more than happy to share my thoughts and hopefully shed some light on the issue.
Adequate resistance in clarinets is very, very important. I recall that Harold Wright spoke of having to buy new clarinets every 6 to 8 years, because the old ones became "blown out." When I was going to Yale the oboe teacher there, Robert Bloom, told me the same thing about oboes, saying after five or six years they "loose their juice" and no longer provide adequate support for the player.
So, what does resistance provide?
Efficient resistance provides containment for the envelope of the elements of musical sound: pitch, color and shape.
If the clarinet blows too freely this envelope will rupture in extremes. Play too loud and pitch will sag, color will brighten, and the shape will shatter. Play too soft and undertoning or "grunting" will precede the note, because there's not enough support for the higher tone in the form of...resistance.
Free blowing clarinets, easy on the air, wear the embouchure out trying to contain the sound envelope from rupturing at high dynamics and to support the tone in an attempt to prevent undertoning in the softer dynamic---in the upper clarion.
Distinguished from "efficient resistance" you find "inefficient resistance."
Inefficient resistance often comes from some fault in acoustics or mechanics--usually padding. Leaks in pads, loose tenon corks, incorrect pad heights, etc, all play a role in creating inefficient resistance.
Inefficient resistance of this type decreases resonance and increases uneven response, making long pipe tones more resistant and stuffy, usually in the low register and playing over the middle register break. If the inefficiency is bad enough it will decrease resonance and increase the stuffy feel of the clarinet throughout its' entire range.
Acoustical inefficiency in resistance (as opposed to mechanical inefficiency) is uneven resistance. Acoustical inefficiency is the result of poor acoustical design--not a simple issue like correcting repair issues like pad leaks, etc. Acoustical inefficiency is a much worse problem, far beyond the capability of the average and even good repair tech to comprehend, let alone fix or even ameliorate to any meaningful degree.
Usually nothing can be done to really fix acoustical inefficiency, because one area of the bore or tone hole placement is already too large in relation to the other area(s). And you can't add material--only take it away.
An even response is what clarinet players feel when the clarinet's acoustical design provides an even resistance. Such a clarinet will contribute greatly to the support of the tonal envelope in both higher dynamic playing and low dynamic playing. Its' virtues shine out over the middle register break and above the staff, and in dynamic extremes. Such a clarinet is easy on the embouchure and allows for more flexible reeds.
Clarinets that are properly designed acoustically and in good mechanical condition are true "MUSICAL instruments"---instruments made for phrasing music.
Such clarinets will give an even response throughout the dynamic and pitch range of the clarinet. Such clarinets are also very democratic in the range of reeds, mouthpieces and barrels that will give acceptable results. In contrast, uneven clarinets are very demanding upon equipment to achieve even manageable results.
That's it, in brief.
In summary: There is such a thing as too much resistance, just as too little. But the worst thing by far is the nightmare of uneven resistance---sadly, a feature in some of the most touted and popular brands and models.
Clarinet players are foolish to be lured by a clarinet that is easy on the air: very free blowing--especially in the left hand of the clarinet.
As deceptively attractive at it may seem to the amateur (and those who think amateuraly) clarinets that are easy on the air hand down a life sentence of heavy labor on the embouchure---and also requires heavy reeds to compensate for the lack of resistance in the clarinet--more hard work.
My own experience is that the very best players look for even, adequate resistance and amateurs are taken in by clarinets that are free blowing--easy on the air.
Combine heavy reeds to compensate for, say, too free blowing upper clarion tones, with uneven resistance in the clarinet and you have a clarinet you'll have to struggle to control all the time you play it, and one which is very, very picky about reeds---and no padding work will suffice to make the situation the least bit better. Reed, barrel and mouthpiece changes will not cure the problem--only mask it to a limited degree. Soon the frustration returns and the mad search for mouthpieces, barrels and reeds to fix what is actually a problem elsewhere in the clarinet begins again. But the search never succeeds any more than putting a band aid on a bullet wound.
Tom
Ridenour Clarinet Products
1-888-AKUSTIK
ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: reed and MP dude
Date: 2012-11-29 08:38
I have a Mitchell Lurie clarinet, well one that he picked out going to France and using it for several recording sessions. It's from 1968.
Thank you Mitchell!
The horn at this moment is being repadded by me and Levi at RDG woodwinds. Levi fixed a stripped post hole, caused by shrinking. Older horns always shrink.
Comparing my new Bb to the old Bb (Buffet-R13's) there very much is a difference.
I've played a teacher named Gennusa's horns from 1966 or so. If I owned that horn I wouldn't trade it for the world.
I played, soon to be retired, Frank Kawaski's horn and that horn had such a sweet sound. One of the best sounds.
I agree with Tom, a very wonderful man I've been able to be in contact with is right about resistance.
I must add to this though. I find special qualities in older horns and new horns. I am playing the new 2011 Bb 60 percent of the time. I very much like the qualities of Mitchell's horn. I often switch around often daily.
So regardless of the horns age you need to find the correct fit for you. I feel comfortable playing these 2 horns in the orchestra, so if one dies from pads falling off during a concert, well no problem. I've done blind tests with musicians hearing me play, it was about a 50/50 call, a few couldn't hear much of a difference.
About Tom's horns. Playing over the high C is the best horn I've played, No effort is need regarding air flow - since Tom popped in I have to tell people to listen to him called the clarinet gospel according to Tom.
A and Bb r13's new.
Bb r13 1963 backup
Vandoren 56
Ciaccia custom mouthpiece
1.07mm facing amazing mouthpiece
2 Kaspers as spares
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Author: Jeff Morasco
Date: 2012-11-29 20:35
Thanks for all the reponses. I think I can see the long term advantages in avoiding an instrument that is too free blowing. I must admit to not paying much attention to the differences if any of resistance on different levels. I always presumed that the degree of resistance is intentional and I am beginning to understand why. Jeff
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2012-12-03 04:11
I rather suspect that resistance (other than that caused by faulty or unsuitable reed or mouthpiece) that is excessive enough to be noticed by a relative beginner, would invariably be caused by leaks or inadequate venting. A good technician can put these right.
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