 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: eduardo94
Date: 2012-11-17 22:22
I played the Debussy Rhapsody last week for my first graduation's audition (and my first time trying performance from memory).
Please, coment and say what you think, you can be honest, criticism are welcome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcr9CB4JzdI&feature=youtu.be
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-11-18 14:32
Your technique, musicality and memorization are absolutely wonderful !!!
I would never have attempted a public rendering of this when I was your age, CONGRATULATIONS !
Of course there are things to pick on.
The first thing that sticks out are the initial two attacks (the "Gs"). And here I mean 'attacks.' In a great tutorial given by Karl Leister at Northwestern University (I'll get the link in a moment) he keeps referring to starting moments like this with NO TONGUE (and he means NO TONGUE). The more I use this means of starting a note the more situations I find it to be appropriate......you really need to try this.
Then there are two (editorial problems) that are obvious. Nr. 1: As you begin the main melody (sorry, I don't have the music before me so no measure #s) which is also repeated just before flipping to the final page, you phrase (take a breath) two notes too early (both times) at the long throat G instead of after the descending notes, E and C. This is the convention and proper shape of this phrase per Robert Marcellus.
Nr 2: at the very end (and this is purely a written wrong note) after the big orchestral chords you play D# pick up into E..... then Dnat - Dsharp - G- E. These last four should be Dsharp - E - G - E.
Finally I find your technique amazing. Just don't let it rush the good stuff. Allow your technique to serve the music, not the other way around.
Marvelous playing !!!
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-11-18 19:47
Thank you sooooo much Joseph !!! I'm really slow about this techno stuff.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: eduardo94
Date: 2012-11-18 19:54
Thanks for the link Joseph!
This was my first time trying to play from memory, so i was alot nervous and the initial notes dont sounded like i studied. :(
Anyway, thanks for the compliments and help :]
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Author: Ron Scholer
Date: 2012-11-19 06:39
To the clarinet world - Look out eduardo94 is the next generation of the best of best.
My only comment for you is to feel the music. Take a listen at the best players, your favorite players. I feel you were just playing the longer notes because they were just written there. Musically, try to envision what Debussy was up to and keep in mind how he'd want these notes executed. These longer notes need to lead to something or go somewhere. The same with the fast passages. Slow down just a shade so the audience can actually hear each note! You are simply wicked fast and you got just a tad bit ahead of the piano player.
A short story. At Curtis in the very first theory class the instructor slammed down all of the notes in the scale, but left out just 1 note. He asked everyone which note wasn't played. Well a few people actually heard the missing note.
You play so fast it's sort of like this story. Let the people hear each note, the way Debussy wrote it. Kind of a romantic piece. Also slow down the beginning of the piece. Let it build slowly so the audience is in suspense waiting for that big moment and finally you give them that long awaited note. You are just too fast here. This of course my opinion and your instructor needs to give you some ideas, surely my opinion is how I feel towards the beautiful piece and you have to make a musical judgement call.
I think you can ask yourself what does Debussy want. Whats in his brain that needs to be shared.
Take the Neilson Concerto. It was based on this poor guy going crazy, so we play it that way. We try to feel these notes as a person sadly going insane.
So what schools are you applying for?
I would think that Curtis in Philly, perhaps Yale, with Dave Shifrin may be at the top of your list. You get a free ride at Curtis. Dave was 22 or so years old when he was appointed first chair with the Cleveland Orchestra, replacing the famous Bob Marcellus, because of Bob's ill health. I'm thinking Dave would be a very good instructor for you.
Keep recording and post your playing. It was really great hearing you play. A wonderful treat! Thanks for posting.
Because of being only 18 your grade would be at least an -
A+.
BA, MA, MSE, MST
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Author: eduardo94
Date: 2012-11-19 22:34
Thanks Ron, i'm so glad that you liked it!
I study at University of Paraíba (a Brazilian's university). My dream is study in a good school in USA or Europe.
Again, thanks for the compliments and help!
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2012-11-20 16:31
EXCELLENT, you're pretty unbelievable for your age, keep up the good work!
Does the pianist play a few wrong notes through fast runs, changing the tonality?
I think you'll do well wherever you apply, so I'd encourage you to aim for the top. Why not see if you can audition for UK and European music school? Plenty of scholarships exist.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-11-21 01:16
Eduardo -
Some excellent playing. You've obviously worked hard on it and deserve the compliments you've received.
However, there's a big problem. While you project your sound and personality well in the difficult passages, most of the time you're playing to yourself. You need to keep the tone fully inflated all the time, so that it goes out to the audience.
Listen to de Peyer's version at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKE5bWD6j4c&feature=related. He's in your ears with the very first note, and keeps the flow going from him to you all the way through.
There are other smaller matters, but the main thing is to PLAY the instrument TO the audience, not just yourself.
In the triplet before the final flourish, the notes are should be D#-E-G, not D-Eb-G, which is a typographical error. According to Charles Neidich, the clarinet/piano score was prepared in a great rush and has numerous errors. The orchestral score http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Music/Manuscripts/Premiere/debussy.pdf, which Debussy prepared with meticulous care, shows the correct notes.
Ken Shaw
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Author: camyllacarvalho
Date: 2012-11-21 02:22
in imslp when you look for this piece and click on arrang. and parts you can find a version without the mistake on the end.
good job EDuardo
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Author: eduardo94
Date: 2012-11-21 23:23
Thank you everybody!
Ken Shaw - when i watched the video and i see the problem in the sound, its low in some parts and louder in others parts. I think that is a problem in the video's audio.
And about the last notes - i saw people saying that the correct notes are D#-E-G and others saying D-Eb-G, i saw alot of recordings with D-Eb-G.
Again, Thank you for the compliments!
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2012-11-23 18:14
One of the things you'll find here, if you ask for feedback, is that quite a lot of it will be considerably off the mark. So, I'd not rely on it. Rather, trust good musicians that you can talk to in your own environment. (What I now have to say needs to be looked at in that light, too. I just heard you through a rather crappy recording, like everyone else.)
It's certainly true that it would be hard work to play with your pianist. He's casual with the notes, with the tempo and with dynamics. You don't need to tell him this to his face -- he probably doesn't read this list -- but be aware that the opening needs a musical collaboration between clarinet and pianoforte, and that just wasn't possible in this case. He played the opening far too fast, for example, destroying the pp atmosphere, against which you have to enter 'piano'. (Playing slower on a pianoforte allows more decay of each note.) And there were lots of occasions later when he made your life difficult.
Your 'G' entries were fine. Don't worry about what someone here said about them.
You need to be careful about the intonation. Your Bb was often noticeably flatter than the piano, and you didn't seem to notice that. (Perhaps your register tube needs cleaning, or perhaps the fact that your F was flat too means that the problem is deeper.)
I think that your idea of the piece, which is generally an intimate one, suits Debussy better at the beginning than Gervase's rather blousy take on it. (I have always admired Gervase in general -- I won an award to study with him when I was a young player -- but I can now see his lack of refinement in parts of the repertoire.) 'Doux e penetrant' is not to be captured by a 'fully inflated' tone. And, the piece 'draws the audience in' in many places, 'whispering' rather than 'going towards them'. Remember that some of the most important things in life are communicated in whispers:-) even though the whispers need to be AUDIBLE whispers.
So, I thought you did very well. Keep it up.
Tony
Post Edited (2012-11-24 16:04)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2012-11-23 18:37
What I DO think about Gervase's recording is that it contains some wonderful piano playing -- it was Lamar Crowson, I suspect. He was always exemplary, and far too often underappreciated.
There's a Melos Ensemble recording of the Mozart K452 and the Beethoven Op 16 quintets for piano and wind, in which I recognised perhaps for the first time an outstanding quality of his.
It was that he had the ability to make what someone had just played convincing IN RETROSPECT. That is, he continued the music in such a way that, whatever had happened, the overall argument never died.
I've often thought that that, for me, constitutes the most defining characteristic of a good musician.
Tony
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Author: eduardo94
Date: 2012-11-24 15:24
Thank for the advices Tony Pay!
About the intonation - Days before the audition, one crazy "luthier" dropped my clarinet, and the fit between barrel and "left hand" isn't perfectly sealed. Later this day, the middle register is getting flatter and flatter.
I felt that my middle register was flat, but i decided don't close the barrel because the others notes was fine.
I dont know if i need change the barrel, fix the fit, or clean the tube, what do you think?
Again, thanks for the great advices!
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2012-11-24 15:57
Eduardo wrote:
>> I dont know if i need change the barrel, fix the fit, or clean the tube, what do you think?>>
'clean the tube':
Yes, it can't do any harm.
'fix the fit:
If you mean that there is now a gap between the bottom end of the barrel and the shoulder of the top joint that you can't close, then you do need to find out why that is and fix it. It's probably why your throat notes were flat on this occasion, although it's possible to play them sharper using a different 'address' (embouchure, tongue position) to the instrument, and every good player can do that to some extent. Also see the comment about tuning rings below.
'change the barrel':
Being aware of the relationship of the throat notes to the rest of the instrument in different conditions (differently tuned pianos, different temperatures) is a necessity of clarinet-playing life. Sometimes you need to carry a shorter barrel in order to be able to solve an extreme problem (suppose the piano is tuned sharp, and it's cold; I remember a winter tour of Italian church venues where I had to use a short barrel AND fill in the throat holes with wax in some concerts).
But I imagine your problem is mostly that it's too hot; so carrying tuning rings that you can use to fill in the gap in the inside bore that's created by pulling out at the barrel to lower the overall pitch can help with 'too flat' throat notes.
There's not much else that one can say online without investigating your instrument and hearing you play at close range.
Tony
Post Edited (2012-11-24 16:03)
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2012-11-24 18:14
I think you did a great job Eduardo and you are certainly one to watch!
I hope I am as brave as you one day and will post up some of my playing for advice.
I think it is amazing that we can almost have a virtual masterclass on this bboard. I am learning all the time, even though I suspect that I may be nearly three times older than you!
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Author: eduardo94
Date: 2012-11-24 23:25
Yes Tony, its a gap, when i below the barrel, it isnt totally sealed. I need fix it.
I think i need a new barrel too, when i play in a cold place the middle register usually come flatter than others registers. My teacher said that the barrel change not just afinacion, but color sound and projection, Did you fell big diference when you change barrels?
Thanks for the compliments Paula!
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Author: Ron Scholer
Date: 2012-11-26 08:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgcDbhrnnuI&feature=fvwrel
Sabine Meyer. Plays the piece very sweet at the beginning. Actually the playing is crisp, mainy takes her time. It's played on a German clarinet. She's so dang dramatic. A master at feeling this difficult piece.
eduardo94 I think by hearing her and how quiet the orchestra is you will understand my comments about feeling the music and taking your time. Lots of emotion. As I said above take your time and play the beginning slowly by holding the piano player back and having him use the damper peddle. The orchestra, the strings are using a muting device. You must control the piano player, not him in control of you.
A very nice example of letting the audience her the notes. Think romance, take your time as she did. Making the audience wait. Thats a good thing. You will notice how slowly she plays. Trust me she has wicked fingers and tons of technique. Just a joke here, but she could probably play this in 4 minutes if she wanted. She's that good.
Sabine was the very first lady, an all man German Berlin Orchestra to break through this barrier as the solo clarinetist. It wass hard on her, playing in an all man orchestra and didn't last very long. Thankfully she became a recording star and travels the world.
As far as nailing this, it's really great, not just notes. There are others I like which I'd like for you to do a search on. By the way, I always use headphones, headsets so you can hear even more. A good set, not the ones you get with an IPOD. Maybe a quality bose set that completely covers your ears. Often turning the lights off helps even more, by turning off part of your brain.
If the search doesn't work, type in her name and Debussy.
BA, MA, MSE, MST
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Author: eduardo94
Date: 2012-11-27 19:54
In my opinion, Sabine is "the best" clarinetist in the world at moment!
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Author: ClaireAnnette
Date: 2012-11-29 10:20
I had to comment, it was not that she was the first woman that was CAPABLE of playing in male orchestra, it was that she was first of the capable women to be 'allowed' to get that far. And it was not accepted even with that. I know as this was MY generation, and I was not permitted certain opportunities because I was a woman. (Not just my imagination. I could give examples, but would prefer not.) This is one reason I had to take other paths. And I was not the only one. Sad but true. It never even crossed my mind that it would be an issue until others brought it up!
Web page underconstruction, currently updating, please be patient.
Problem with web design software, being corrected at this time.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-11-29 18:04
And let's give credit where credit is due. Whatever his motivations were, Karajan put Meyer in the orchestra. The Orchestra and he came to such rancor that Karajan was nearly tossed out over this incident and it cast a pall over his final years.
How things have changed as you look across the group these days.
...................Paul Aviles
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