 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: vljenewein
Date: 2012-08-09 23:57
Haven't seen a whole lot of information out there on the Moenning Bros. Bb clarinet. I would imagine if they carried the Moenning name, as highly regarded as are his barrels, that the clarinet would also have a following.
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-08-10 01:29
As far as I know one of them repaired clarinets - Hans of course and the others were violin repairmen. Both were near each other in Philly. Maybe 8 blocks away. To my knowledge they never worked together. I'm not sure, but the violin repairmen may have been his 2 causins. They were the brothers. It's been too many years. My experiences with Hans are going back to the 1970's. If he did have a brother working at the shop I'm not aware of it.
Hans had an assistant but he wasn't related in any way and his work wasn't close to Hans's mastery and he retired a few years before Hans did, maybe 10 years.
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Author: Joseph Brenner, Jr.
Date: 2012-08-10 02:24
Hans Moennig (note spelling) was the woodwind specialist, whose shop was in Philadelphia at 15 South 21st Street. He had a cousin, Willem, who also had a shop in Philadelphia that had been founded by his father--they were violin makers. Willem's son, William III, continued the trade after Willem retired to Nashville and took a post retirement job teaching violin repair at Vanderbilt's Blair School of Music. Back to topic, I don't know whether Hans's branch of the family manufactured clarinets (though Hans had to prove he could build one to be a master of his trade in Markneukirchen, Germany.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-08-10 02:50
NO NO NO NO!
Do NOT confuse the Moennig Brothers clarinets imported into the USA with Hans Moennig or anyone else. These were cheap student-model clarinets, some metal and some wood, imported by Baxter-Northrup in Los Angeles. I've restored a few sopranos in both wood and metal, and one metal bass, and despite being labeled "Artist Model" they were all mediocre at best. The bass, despite some interesting design features, was probably the worst-playing bass clarinet I've ever worked on.
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Author: vljenewein
Date: 2012-08-10 02:56
Just wondering. I just bought a Moenning Bros. clarinet (wood) and thought there might be some useful information/history on the clarinet.
I was thinking that Gebrueder Moenning was a clarinet made in Germany.
Gebreuder Moenning
Gebruder is German for Brother.
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
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Author: kdk
Date: 2012-08-10 03:04
I could be completely mistaken, but I think I remember hearing that Hans Moennig came from a family woodwind shop that made bassoons in Germany. If that's true, they may also have made clarinets, which would explain the source of Hans's intimate understanding of the clarinet.
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-08-10 04:32
I'm not sure Karl, but Hans did play and repair bassoons, so really does make sense. He did some amazing fixes to the bassoons. The neck, Bacal? spelling?Well someone sat on one and it was bent badly. He took these assorted size balls of different dimenions, heating the bocal, banged the balls through the bocal with a relatively small hammer and before you know, it was fixed without dents. He also tapped the outside of the bocal to round it and even out the bumps. Pretty amazing. He started off with the smallest ball and worked his way up to the perfect taper of the bacal. For those that are unfamiliar with bocals during the 1970's these were worth around 2000 dollars or more and somewhat equal to the perfect mouthpiece, which in my opinion doesn't exist, because we all play differently. I like Kaspers, Cheds and lately I find the facings of Morgans very intriquing as well as the interesting sound. Mr. Morgan passed on so I haven't played anything new since his death. I am excited enough to order one thanks to Eddie Palanker sending me a few samples.
KDK you are correct about the musical family, however Moenig never said anything to me about his past unless I asked him. Related to your question about the clarinets I can't confirm or deny this. He may have had a brother in Germany but he never talked to me about it. Only his causins and perhaps I very, very, sightly remember him saying his brother passed away earlier. Folks please don't take my word here, again this is from so long ago. I do have a fairly good long term memory but this is a hunch, but more then a guess. I remember him saying a lot of his family remained behind in Germany. We spent a lot of time together hoping I could become a master repairman. I'm very good, but surely not in or close to his league. I take pride in my work for general repair including tuning clarinets, barrels, and undercutting holes for tuning, some cracks, but not his ability to fix other instruments to perfection. Even when repadding horns he was able to get 15 to 20 seconds of suction. I'm lucky to get 15. He threw out a lot of pads. Maybe like reeds. He'd use about 3 out 0f 10.
Hope this helps.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2012-08-11 08:10)
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-08-10 11:30
Moenning... Moennig.... not the same name.... + pay special attention to the post above by David Spegielthal...
dn
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2012-08-10 12:42
That was my thought when I read this last night, but I want certain.
Like Oswalt and Oswald -- totally different surnames.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-08-10 12:44
Interesting spelling of my name, Donald! Trying to match the various misspelling of Moennig? 
Anyway, my point is that the "Moennig Brothers" (written just like that) clarinets that are fairly common in the USA may or may not have anything to do with Hans Moennig or his immediate family, but the instruments themselves are not very good and are worth very little. Sorry, Vernon, but your Moennig Brothers clarinet is just another cheap student instrument from the past, despite having a famous name and being made in Germany.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-08-10 13:35
The only Moennig Los Angeles bass I worked on was an odd instrument - it was built to low Eb but the lower joint was for a low D bass and had a wooden mushroom-shaped vent for the low Eb inset into the front of the lower joint and hidden behind the bell flare.
The keywork was incredibly delicate and would bend just by looking at it. The upper speaker vent went through the socket and through the crook tenon and had a projecting lug soldered to the socket ring to align it properly. The bell U-bend was oval in cross section, but the lowest note didn't issue directly from the bell.
Can't say it was a good instrument. I assumed it was made by Moennig in Germany (as it had a very Germanic look to it) and imported/sold through an agent in L.A.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: vljenewein
Date: 2012-08-10 13:47
Thanks all, especially David Spiegelthal. I'm only out $29.95 for it. But, since it is wood I figured it would be worth at least something for a wooden barrel. The barrel alone might be worth the $$ spent. And, it might be surprising. Even mediocre clarinets will slip in a "good" one now and then. You can't always depend on worthless makers to live up to their reputation *S* I've even heard there are once in a while a decent Chinese clarinet that shows up. You may fish in a pond that has a reputation of carp and little fish, and someday pull out a huge large mouth bass that was just waiting around. Well see.
Names.... once upon a time Jenewein was spelled Jennewein and then my Great Grandfather dropped one of the "n" in the name. Been that way since.
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2012-08-10 14:30
I have a Moennig Bros. plastic A clarinet, which I use when the temperature in poorly heated buildings is too low. It doesn't play too badly; about average for a student clarinet, but the keys are prone to breaking.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-08-10 14:39
Chris P, the Moennig Brothers bass clarinet you describe is exactly like the one I worked on. I spent a ton of time on it, and the end result was very disappointing. Mine was also engraved with the name of the distributors, Baxter-Northrup, Los Angeles.
TANGENTIAL NOTE: Funny about the low-Eb issuing from a mushroom-shaped plastic vent on the lower body, my F. Arthur Uebel bass clarinet (Oehler-system), has the same design feature for its 'factory' bottom note (low D) and the nice thing about it is that, closed off by a pad, a perfect low-C# is produced. So the first modification I made to my Uebel was to add a key and linkage to cover that mushroom vent, and voila, instant range to low C#. Afterwards I built a short removable one-note extension with integral bell to extend the range to low C, so now I can play anything in the repertoire.
I guess the "mushroom vent" is a Germanic thing......
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-08-10 15:02
I've tried several German-made Moennig Bros. clarinets over the years. They've all had bizarrely shaped keys and have been unplayable. They're lamp material.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-08-10 20:04
It's what our eyes or brain are accustomed to - usually we expect ~ing at the end of similar words instead of ~ig if English is our main language.
I used to think Moennig and Hammig ended with ~ing at first glance until I actually read the name.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-08-10 20:05
Horst Moennig was said to have been married to Harry Baxter's daughter, a flutist, and he worked at the Baxter Northrup music store in Los Angeles. They imported various instruments with names such as Marcel Deleau, H. Lefebre, Moennig, Buffet, etc. I own instruments with all these names.
An early Buffet simple system oboe and EH pair of mine in a double case dated April 1916 at Baxter Northrup has the initials H M etched on the under sides of the EH keys, probably those of Horst Moennig. One could also speculate that some of those old Moennig woodwinds from Baxter Northrup were stencil instruments not named for a maker in Germany but for Horst Moennig, the employee and son in law of Harry Baxter.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2012-08-10 20:51
The Moennig Gebruder were Fritz and Hans (why does that remind me of a very old SNL skit?) who owned the company of that name in Markneukirchen. Fritz had two sons (maybe more) Horst and Hans who both emigrated to the USA. Horst lived in CA, working with Baxter-Northrup initially as a flute-maker. He became Harry Baxter's son-in-law. Hans ended up for many years in Philadelphia as a pre-eminent woodwind guru. Meanwhile back at Markneukirchen Gebruder-Moennig survived until well after WW2 but was eventually pushed into a merger with Oscar Adler GmbH by the DDR government. The joint company is still extant in Markneukirchen. I don't know about their old "artiste" clarinets but their current horns are quite highly regarded.
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Author: vljenewein
Date: 2012-08-11 00:31
....."I don't know about their old "artiste" clarinets but their current horns are quite highly regarded."
And, very pricey as I saw on their web site clarinets ranging into the thousands of dollars.
In regards to the one I just bought a music teacher back some 40 years ago is selling his instruments. His comment on this serial number: 339656 was that it was wood, really liked this horn, played well, is in tune and has pretty even scale. Hopefully it is one of those that may have actually been worth a darn.
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-08-11 08:15
I'm not sure Karl, but Hans did play and repair bassoons, so really does make sense. He did some amazing fixes to the bassoons. The neck, Bacal? spelling?Well someone sat on one and it was bent badly. He took these assorted size balls of different dimenions, heating the bocal, banged the balls through the bocal with a relatively small hammer and before you know, it was fixed without dents. He also tapped the outside of the bocal to round it and even out the bumps. Pretty amazing. He started off with the smallest ball and worked his way up to the perfect taper of the bacal. For those that are unfamiliar with bocals during the 1970's these were worth around 2000 dollars or more and somewhat equal to the perfect mouthpiece, which in my opinion doesn't exist, because we all play differently. I like Kaspers, Cheds and lately I find the facings of Morgans very intriquing as well as the interesting sound. Mr. Morgan passed on so I haven't played anything new since his death. I am excited enough to order one thanks to Eddie Palanker sending me a few samples.
KDK you are correct about the musical family, however Moenig never said anything to me about his past unless I asked him. Related to your question about the clarinets I can't confirm or deny this. He may have had a brother in Germany but he never talked to me about it. Only his causins and perhaps I very, very, sightly remember him saying his brother passed away earlier. Folks please don't take my word here, again this is from so long ago. I do have a fairly good long term memory but this is a hunch, but more then a guess. I remember him saying a lot of his family remained behind in Germany. We spent a lot of time together hoping I could become a master repairman. I'm very good, but surely not in or close to his league. I take pride in my work for general repair including tuning clarinets, barrels, and undercutting holes for tuning, some cracks, but not his ability to fix other instruments to perfection. Even when repadding horns he was able to get 15 to 20 seconds of suction. I'm lucky to get 15. He threw out a lot of pads. Maybe like reeds. He'd use about 3 out 0f 10.
Hope this helps.
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Author: vljenewein
Date: 2012-08-17 20:47
Received it this afternoon. Just a quick look over I need to replace a pad or two and one tenon cork. What did come with it, for the $29.00 I paid was a mouthpiece that says Ch. Chedeville (Paris) and M0 in the lower left of the scroll work on the bottom... opposite end says FRANCE.
It has a serial number and does say "GERMAN" on one of the joints.
Vernon
Jenewein Duduks Manufacturing & Research
www.duduk.us American made Duduks
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