 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-04-26 22:09
RIP link.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-04-26 22:38
Can you describe it? Are we talking synthetic pads?
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-04-26 23:33
Attachment: IMG_20120427_010824.jpg (73k)
Attachment: IMG_20120427_010832.jpg (78k)
Attachment: IMG_20120427_010910.jpg (55k)
I just repadded an old metal Noblet with homemade pads. They might look crude and many a repairperson would frown upon them, but I have them on one of my clarinets for roughly five years now, and they still work fine and are absolutely tight.
Basically it's the (I guess) the same material as used for other synthetic pads, sans the cardboard backs, and the surface sealing foil. It will assume an impression ring within ~5 minutes, its depth depending on the force per square millimeter, and then remain stable when an equilibrium is reached.
The material is ridiculously cheap (about $2 for a letter-sized sheet), all you need is a hole punch of the required diameter; in a pinch curvy nail scissors can also be used. The material works even on the most ragged tone holes as it is rather accomodating. No stickiness has been observed so far. They're tight as the cork on a bottle.
Now, I'm not after stealing food off someone else's plate. The pads don't have that refined look, they look somewhat amateurish. Some might argue they feel too spongy (which I think they don't). Their production is cumbersome as it takes some skill to create neat pads. They don't take hot glue or shellac lightly - refloating isn't on of their core competences - glue one time right, or be prepared to start from scratch.
But in a field repair box, they're invaluable. Or for that old honker where redoing toneholes just wouldn't be economical.
The material is also well suited for thumb rest cushions.
But I still have no idea about the original poster's system. But at least you now have someone to peck at.
--
Ben
Post Edited (2012-04-26 23:40)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-04-27 08:46
Or just upload one or two photos directly to this site????
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-04-27 10:30
Attachment: dead_link.png (8k)
Attached is the message I get every time.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-04-27 12:19
Facebook images only work for yourself, unless you have shared the stuff with everyone (and not just your friends).
Better just upload them here.
--
Ben
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Author: sdr
Date: 2012-04-27 12:38
The Facebook link to video worked fine for me. It shows pads that "float" on a gimbeled mounting system within the pad cup so they are self-levelling all the time. Looks fantastic if they can still lift high enough to fully open the hole and if the internal hinge (maybe a ball-and-socket joint?) doesn't get loose and floppy. Would love a link to the manufacturer's website.
-sdr
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Author: TianL
Date: 2012-04-27 14:29
the link works fine for me too and man that's pretty cool!!
i think one has to sign into facebook in order see the video.
you can also just put the video on youtube.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-04-27 15:31
Thanks for the new link.
These pads will be fine provided they're neither too loose or too stiff (I presume they can be adjusted).
I think they'd also be better if they had a much lower profile so they don't compromise the venting without having to bend keys about to gain more opening. I presume the Tosca in the video had to have the pad cups bent to get the desired ventings as Buffet generally use very thin set pads compared to most makes.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2012-04-27 15:47
Selmer tried this concept several years ago, sixties I think, in their Bundy line and called them "adjusto-pads". They worked but were very noisy. Perhaps this "new" version of the idea works a bit better.
j butler
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-04-27 15:58
I've seen a Bundy tenor sax with self levelling pads which was a nightmare to adjust and the Lyons C clarinet has self levelling pads fitted to it as well.
This is a hi-tech and more refined version of the same thing, so if it can be adjusted to make the pads move with the right amount of resistance, then it shouldn't be a problem. No good for some applications such as certain keys on oboes or large clarinets where they have perforated fingerplates.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-04-27 15:59)
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Author: paker
Date: 2012-06-05 15:01
What is the material? None of the links work for me.
Thanks.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-06-05 16:03
Paker,
I think it was stated above that the main part of the idea is mechanical. There is a cup that floats (or gimbals) within another cup ...... on some sort of pivot point. The pads themselves are unremarkable.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-06-05 22:15
I can't figure out how you can seal all of the holes and adjust the key work properly, mainly the lower register pinky keys. Wouldn't it be impossible to adjust the pinky keys without any of them leaking?
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-06-05 22:16
Added to this wouldn't the spring action feel really mushy causing you to press harder on the keys?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-06-06 00:09
Not having one under my fingers it seems that this mechanism only adds height to the equation. Once one compensates for that, it should be the same. Of course the "auto leveling" idea really only seems to be an advantage for the tech who doesn't have to level the pads, rather than any advantage to the performer.........if you ask me.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-06-06 01:37
Ben wrote:
I just repadded an old metal Noblet with homemade pads. They might look crude and many a repairperson would frown upon them, but I have them on one of my clarinets for roughly five years now, and they still work fine and are absolutely tight.
Basically it's the (I guess) the same material as used for other synthetic pads, sans the cardboard backs, and the surface sealing foil. It will assume an impression ring within ~5 minutes, its depth depending on the force per square millimeter, and then remain stable when an equilibrium is reached.
The material is ridiculously cheap (about $2 for a letter-sized sheet), all you need is a hole punch of the required diameter; in a pinch curvy nail scissors can also be used. The material works even on the most ragged tone holes as it is rather accomodating. No stickiness has been observed so far. They're tight as the cork on a bottle."
Ben, what is this material? Does it have a trade name and where would I find it?
Thanks,
Tony F.
Tony F.
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Author: jcfasanar
Date: 2012-06-06 01:51
When you press the pad against the hole, it adjust perfectly and the pad is "fixed" (dont move). The material is leather. I think the advantage is not only for the technician but for the performer too (not worries about possible leaks because the auto-leveling feature)
I like this system, i think is a great idea, but finally ended installing gore-tex again because:
-I installed these pads in ALL the clarinet, works great, but leather pads never liked me really. Darks my tone too much for my taste. I didnt think it would be as much... i think installing it only in the 4 lower cups will be a better idea.
Talking about this with my tech, we think it would be great if can adapt gore-text material to this system... coming soon?
-Key height is too much (again, for me). The venting is correct but its a bit uncorfortable and its neccesary to be accustomed. Again, i didn think it would be as much
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-06-06 07:27
TonyF wrote:
> Ben, what is this material? Does it have a trade name and where would I
> find it?
Can you write me a private message? (click on my name to see my profile)
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-06-06 11:47
The flute pad cups are fixed to the key arms and aren't self levelling.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-06-06 13:43
The pads on my early 19th century Monzani flute are flat leather glued to a metal plate that has a knobbed stalk on top. The knob fits through a hole in the key, permitting the pad to move, like the Calvo pad.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2012-06-06 19:09
I have seen old flutes using a floating pad system with the pads pivoting on the arm. The examples I saw were very noisy though might have been slightly less so when new. Think the system was called something like "Potter's Patent Pads."
This was in existence over 100 years ago.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-06-06 22:37
Oh right - I thought the pad cups were riveted on.
Other instruments with self-levelling pads are the Lyons C clarinet and the Vibrato polycarbonate sax. Only they don't have a mechanical linkage like the pads mentioned in the original post and (like the Bundy pads) rely on luck to work!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2012-06-07 03:14
Looks great (though they sound "clicky") and are very interesting, but I can't help but feel this is a solution in search of a problem... pads are meant to last, and if there are issues it's quick fix. I fact, between overhauls I have almost no issues with them.
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-06-27 17:25
tictactux wrote
"I just repadded an old metal Noblet with homemade pads. They might look crude and many a repairperson would frown upon them, but I have them on one of my clarinets for roughly five years now, and they still work fine and are absolutely tight.
Basically it's the (I guess) the same material as used for other synthetic pads, sans the cardboard backs, and the surface sealing foil. It will assume an impression ring within ~5 minutes, its depth depending on the force per square millimeter, and then remain stable when an equilibrium is reached.
The material is ridiculously cheap (about $2 for a letter-sized sheet), all you need is a hole punch of the required diameter; in a pinch curvy nail scissors can also be used. The material works even on the most ragged tone holes as it is rather accomodating. No stickiness has been observed so far. They're tight as the cork on a bottle."
Hi Ben,
I found some of this material in a local craft shop and made a set of pads for an old Bundy. I have a set of punches in the appropriate sizes and the process took about 5 minutes. Fitting them was a breeze, I used shellac cement in the normal manner. They're far easier to fit than conventional pads and far more accommodating with regard to getting a good seal.
After a couple of weeks service in the local high school band they seem to be standing up OK. They certainly seem to perform as you said, and the total cost of materials came to about $3. I found I could buy the material in Foolscap sized sheets in 1,2,3,4 and 5mm thickness, and I used the 3mm material.
Tonight I used the 5mm material to fabricate a pad for an Alto sax as an emergency repair. I suspect it will outperform the original. Many thanks for the idea.
Tony F.
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