 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Vubble3
Date: 2011-11-20 05:41
Does the Backun fatboy tend to play sharper than buffet barrels?
Buffet Bb R13 A RC Prestige
buffet chadash and moennig barrels
Lomax classic lig
b40 lyre
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-11-20 14:29
If it's shorter.
I've honestly not found that any barrel tunes differently from any other barrel if the length and bore dimensions are the same.
If the issue you're trying to deal with is tuning and simply going longer or shorter by a millimeter or so isn't solving your problem, you may need to work directly with a barrel maker (Morrie Backun or Allan Segal or others on the BB) to get specific suggestions to address your particular concern. Most barrel makers are primarily selling sound quality, not intonation.
Karl
Post Edited (2011-11-20 14:36)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2011-11-20 19:52
Since you indicated previously on another thread that you wanted a specific barrel ......I believe the words were "I am so going to get a....."
I suggest you email or call or visit the person whose barrel you are "so going to get," and garner some sage advise.
(Sage goes good with stuffing this time of year.)
A snide answer would be "YOU are playing sharp, Not the barrel."
BUT:
The more complete answer first asks WHICH notes are sharp, what is you current set-up of mouthpiece, instrument, level of training, what happens when you swap barrels with someone else.....etc.
Since you live in SF, I previously mentioned a highly respected local barrel artisan, along with other options.
kds thanks for the kudos. The equine will not hydrate at trough near the famed speedway.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Vubble3
Date: 2011-11-20 22:26
I scheduled a visit to Deitch's Woodwind Workshop in San Francisco this Saturday. I play on a buffet e11 A clarinet and I tend to play very flat and I really hope the 65 mm fatboy won't play flatter than my teacher's standard buffet r13 A clarinet barrel. But I play really sharp on my Bb r13. I wasn't reccomended to play a fobes and I just don't like Buffet barrels (chadash and all those...) so Backun is my only option left.
Buffet Bb R13 A RC Prestige
buffet chadash and moennig barrels
Lomax classic lig
b40 lyre
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-11-20 23:15
Does your teacher have the same tuning problems on each of your clarinets with your current barrels that you have? And what is it about "Buffet" barrels (I don't consider stock Buffet, Moennig and Chadash barrels to be equivalent to each other) that you "just don't like?" Who recommended against a Fobes barrel and why? And even among Backun's barrels, what is it about the fatboy that has you so laser-focused on it?
Again, it's really important to work out what problem you're trying to solve. If you and your teacher have the same intonation problems on your equipment, then the solution is most likely barrel length, not shape and design. If your teacher can't replicate the problem, then trying to solve it with a barrel change may be a waste of money. If, as Allan suggested, it's intonation in specific areas or registers and your teacher finds the problems to be rooted in your equipment and not in your technique, it may take some custom tweaking by a barrel maker (Backun, Fobes, Segal or anyone else) to solve the problem.
Maybe the fatboy will be your answer. Where will you look next if the fatboy doesn't solve your problem?
Karl
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-11-21 00:50
If you really want to know, and your teacher is not being particularly helpful with your process of selecting a new barrel, I would (ONCE AGAIN) suggest you speak directly with Backun Musical Services as to whether a barrel willbe a fix for the issue with your A clarinet.
You have also received excellent advice from anther custom barrel maker who does fine work. You might also want to consult with him as to his offerings. While I like my Backun barrels, they are not the only choice, and will not cure all problems.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Joseph Tomasso
Date: 2011-11-21 01:47
when i played buffet instruments I used the MoBa barrels (and I found a 65mm barrel to play very well in tune on my particular A). It might be that you need a 64mm barrel... that is totally acceptable you know! I had a friend in undergrad who played a 67 chadash on his.
Now I play yamaha CSG clarinets and use a 55 and 54 mm ringless (grenadilla) backun. The yamaha stock barrels come at 56.5 and 56.0 (i think?) but I found my pitch to be exact when pushed in all the way (and I was really worried about flexibility especially in my orchestra where pitch rises). I'm happy to have the shorter barrel even if other people think it is odd. I'm confident in my set up after testing it rigorously.
Try a bunch (backun will send you a lot!) and play what works, not what you think is acceptable or normal. Would you rather sound good on a short barrel or play flat and say "everyone else uses a 65mm so i should too!"
You might also consider looking at mouthpieces. I use a backun traditional and an m30 (although i very much prefer the backun these days). The m30 plays higher than every other vandoren mouthpiece I have tried, but it could have been designed for 442 where as my older ones were designed for 440. I wasn't very serious back in high school nor did I play test anything. Something I really regret considering all the equipment I bought as a youth.
Good luck!
Bachelor of Music, Sax/Clarinet Performance (2005, 06)
Master of Music, Multiple Woodwind Performance (2008)
Master of Music, Oboe Performance (2013)
Gainesville Chamber Orchestra (Clarinet)
University of Florida 2010-2011(Visiting Lecturer in Woodwi
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2011-11-21 02:03
Hey Joseph,
I was just wondering what differences the Backun barrels made on your CSGs. I'm interested in testing the barrels for my CSG some time in the future if money allows and just wanted your opinion.
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Author: Joseph Tomasso
Date: 2011-11-21 02:58
No problem Cx,
I found that the lower E/F on the CSG A clarinet was just not matching the rest of the instrument the way I wanted it to match. When I starting playing around with the Backun barrels (as well as the bells) I found that by concentrating on a higher tongue position I could match both sound and intonation with ease. Perhaps it is the barrel and perhaps it is my own voicing issues from juggling more than one instrument, but I firmly believe the backun makes the job easier.
As far as pitch goes, I also feel like the throat tones sit in a better position on my backun for both the Bb and A (which could also be because I moved to a shorter length, but I think it is also partly because of the taper of the barrel).
I have only been using the backun for a month, so I may end up changing my mind a year or two down the line, but for the price of the barrel and the increased stability in my sound throughout the range of the horn, and for having less trouble navigating the throat tones, I am extremely pleased.
I also feel like the stock CSG barrels produce a slightly tight sound in the clarion if that makes any sense. Mostly between E and A.... especially the F on both the Bb/A. I'm not sure if it has to do with the metal rings adding a certain degree of pressure on the wood, or if it has more to do with the different taper of the barrels. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the physics of the equipment could comment?
I love the CSG clarinets. I think they have really opened a door for me in my playing, and with or without the Backun I notice a huge difference when I go back to my buffet R13 for teaching or outdoor performance. I would certainly say give them a try if you're curious, but just by owning the CSGs for now I'd like to say we've made a great decision
OH yeah, When I did my trial, I had 6 grenadilla and 6 cocobolo. I did actually prefer the stock barrels over a few of the backun, but there were 3 backun barrels in particular that just felt a ton easier to play for what it is worth. I also play a backun mouthpiece, so perhaps that has something to do with my preference in barrel as well.
If you have any other questions feel free to contact me. Good luck when you start your trials...and of course I suggest going directly to backun!
Bachelor of Music, Sax/Clarinet Performance (2005, 06)
Master of Music, Multiple Woodwind Performance (2008)
Master of Music, Oboe Performance (2013)
Gainesville Chamber Orchestra (Clarinet)
University of Florida 2010-2011(Visiting Lecturer in Woodwi
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Author: Vubble3
Date: 2011-11-21 04:34
My teacher is helpful, he's not against fobes barrel, but he doesn't ever mention it. the r13 A stock barrel is my teacher's barrel and I have to give it back and I need a professional of my own. The reason why I don't like buffet barrels (chadash and stock r13) is that they are too resistant to my tastes. The reason why I am going for fatboy is that it's not resistant from what I heard and it's perfect for my resistant E11 A clarinet
Buffet Bb R13 A RC Prestige
buffet chadash and moennig barrels
Lomax classic lig
b40 lyre
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-11-21 05:27
Are you certain the resistance in your A clarinet isn't caused by slight leaks somewhere?
Karl
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Author: gwie
Date: 2011-11-21 16:44
I'm with Joseph on this one. I love my CSG's, but the Backun barrels that I bought for them really give them that last little boost in openness, tone color, and flexibility.
I went with the 55.5mm barrels, as I find them to be very in-tune with the barrel and middle joint pulled out about 1mm when things are completely warmed up. It really helps for those cold performances in churches, but has enough length for the inevitable greenhouse effect with big orchestras in small spaces.
I use a Cocobolo one for the Bb clarinet, and a Grenadilla one for the A. On the Bb I wanted more color in the sound and less blowing resistance, and on the A I wanted more focus and clarity, especially in the lower register.
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Author: Vubble3
Date: 2011-11-22 01:59
I checked leaks, Most of my top tenons are cork, and the rest are valentinos. the bottom joint is sealed as well as my top joint and are valentinos, 2 leather, and 1 skin pad. The seal is amazing. My A is not terribly resistant, but I want to be able to blow it more easily. Of course I would want quality of tone, but I'm more concerned of it's resistance.
Buffet Bb R13 A RC Prestige
buffet chadash and moennig barrels
Lomax classic lig
b40 lyre
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-11-22 07:26
Re the seal, you mentioned you have some Valentino pads. One issue they sometimes have is that the pads themsevles aren't rigid enough to always remain flat during installation. They are good at accomodating the tone hole, so eventhough they might not be flat they will seal when you press on the key or when a spring is closing a key. What this means is that you have a very good seal when all keys are closed, but those pads might not close so simultanously around the entire circumference of the tone hole. This can cause slight "stuffiness" when transitioning from note to note, trills, etc. Your finger will feel he pad contacting the tone hole but it will take more time than usual to complete the seal. It's not necessarily that you have this problem, but it can happen.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-11-22 09:41
I wanted to jump in on the CSG barrel issue since I have just gone through attempting to procure another 54mm custom barrel (I prefer the REALLY short barrel). Backun was only able to provide the 'standard' barrel in this size and no other 'custom' maker was able to help me save for Dr. Alan Segal. I currently use one of Alan Segal's 'Fat Boy' barrels on my CSGs and it is wonderful.
......................Paul Aviles
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2011-11-22 12:09
Thanks Paul, I was asked to make quite a few custom CSGs lately, almost all of them significantly shorter than stock specs. Seems to be the concensus.
For the original poster's benefit, however, I think he would be best served by contacting Morrie directly and explaining his problem and getting His advice for the Buffet E11 A-clarinet in question.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2011-11-27 00:40
Vubble3 said:
> I play on a buffet e11 A clarinet and I tend to play very flat
> But I play really sharp on my Bb r13.
I had a similar issue (Buffet R13s for both Bb and A). My A clarinet was consistently about 20c flat (even with a 64mm Chadash barrel) and my Bb was quite sharp (even with same barrel pulled out). A couple changes helped with this. I switched mouthpieces from a Vandoren M13 (series 13) to a Fobes CWF. The Vandoren was pitched at A440 and my A clarinet was quite flat. Now, my A is pretty close (and better once warmed up) with the mouthpiece and barrel combo. When I put the same mouthpiece and barrel on my Bb, I put a thick tuning ring in the barrel (2mm I believe it is). Intonation on both clarinets much better.
All I have to do for my Eb clarinet is get a longer barrel (43mm or even 44mm judging on how far I pull out my current barrel).
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: Vubble3
Date: 2011-11-30 05:14
After I tested 17 barrels at a small shop in San Francisco, I finally picked out a moba cocobolo, the backuns dont seem as impressive as its price tag, but I like it for it's easily dynamic control, less resistance than my chadash/buffet, covered/ dark sound, sweetness, and of course the aesthetic. My teacher prefers his own chadash barrels because they are a little more resonant, but he told me I sound a lot better on my moba. So I guess it is personal preference because I wanted a barrel that fits my needs which are less resistance, covered sound, tuning (more stable than chadash barrels), and the looks. My teacher plays on a prestige r13 Bb and regular r13. He plays sharp on higher register and somewhat flat on the lower, but on his buffet & chadash barrels, he plays consistently flat in all registers.
Buffet Bb R13 A RC Prestige
buffet chadash and moennig barrels
Lomax classic lig
b40 lyre
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