 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rob Harold
Date: 2011-04-26 21:14
I bought a Selmer Signet 100 Bb Soprano some time ago. It has a crack in the lower joint starting from the top joint ring and reaches the tone hole. I cant see any of the crack from inside the joint or bore.
Is there any consensus on what is the best crack repair technique? I have read about pins and graphite ring. A graphite ring sounds like the best, but I seriously havent a clue.
Who are the recommended clarinet repair people in the New York City and northern New Jersey area?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Rob Harold
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Author: A Brady
Date: 2011-04-26 21:39
Kristin Bertrand: kristin@woodwindworkshop.com, 646-670-6565
Guy Chadash: 212-239-7187
Tony Salimbene: 862-208-9132
All are excellent, Kristin and Guy work in NYC, and Tony works in NYC and NJ.
AB
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-04-26 23:04
The Signet is/was a first-level step-up clarinet that sells for between $100 and $250 on eBay and as low as $5 on the Goodwill auction site. It may not be worth fixing.
The least expensive top quality repair tech in NYC is Susan Eberenz, who specializes in putting student-level clarinets in playing condition for $200 and does excellent work. She's at vintageflutes@aol.com. She usually has several Signet-level clarinets ready to go. Tell her I sent you.
Ken Shaw
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-04-27 05:43
>> Is there any consensus on what is the best crack repair technique? I have read about pins and graphite ring. A graphite ring sounds like the best, but I seriously havent a clue. <<
Not really, there's no consensus. Some stick to a certain method because they are used to doing it and it works well. Some look more into new methods.
Personally I changed my opinions on cracks a lot in the last couple of years. I consider that a significant thing to whether a method would work or not is the crack "will" to re-open. A big crack or small crack isn't particularly important for that and you can't really know in advance too.
Some cracks might not even move at all without any repairs. The wood can become stable and no matter how much you play they won't open more than they already are. OTOH even a tiny crack can open more and more, but a big crack can open more too. It's possible that a crack is repaired and the repair seems reliable, but the crack wouldn't open even without repairs. It's also possible that even the most extreme and strong repair won't help against a very stuborn crack.
I've seen cracks don't change without repairs. I've seen many cracks hold just fine with super glue only. The method to fill with super glue is significant though. More and more repairers now stick with this method and don't use pins or bands. Glues improved a lot in the last years, while pinning is a traditional method that existed long before glues were reliable (in fact I think shellac was originally used as the crack filler when pinning).
Personally, most of the time, I prefer to use glue only first. It's the least intrusive, quickest and least expensive method. Only occasionally I would use other methods imediately. Then if there's a problem with the glue only, I'll resort to pinning or banding. It's not often that super glue only doesn't last.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-27 07:54
Socket cracks like this are due to the rings being loose and aren't serious as the crack won't go beyond the C tonehole. They can either be fixed by glueing and tidying up the tonehole and refitting the socket ring so it's tight, or having the tonehole bushed and recut if the tonehole is badly damaged.
In most cases with this kind of lower joint socket crack, the tonehole can be tidied up and levelled after glueing with superglue without the need for bushing as once the socket ring is refitted so it's a tight fit, the crack won't open up again. It's basically the same principle as flush banding but the existing socket ring in this case is acting as the flush band rather than having another one fitted as there's no need to.
It's a relatively common thing on some mid-'60s wooden B&H clarinets where the tenon wasn't a paticularly good fit (the upper tenon ring at the shoulder was non-existent causing the joint to rock excessively) and others with lined sockets such as Selmers etc. with an articulated G# key.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Rob Harold
Date: 2011-04-27 17:46
Thank you for everybody's advice. I was afraid that spending anything over $100 might not be worthwhile on this class of clarinet.
I have done some instrument repairs, and I like to tinker, which can be a very bad idea on something expensive.
I might try the CA glue fill approach. It is similar to the approach used on an acoustic guitar and such, where a crack is not joined together, but a sliver of new wood is glued in to fill the space of the crack.
How do you determine if the ring is on tight enough? The top ring for the lower joint seems tight. I can't twist or move it with my fingers.
Again, thanks for the replies.
Rob
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-27 18:31
It may be tight now the weather's becoming more humid but might loosen off in the winter.
Your best bet is to remove the socket ring when repairing a socket crack as you want to open the crack up slightly so the glue can wick into it.
Get a piece of hardwood (such as a dowel) to push against the ring so you won't damage it and tap the block of wood with a hammer, going all around the circumference until the ring comes off. Then with the ring off, open up the crack by pushing it against a tapered peg or use a screwdriver handle to ease the crack open just enough to get some glue into it.
Then let it close and give the glue a bit of time to go off. Remove any excess glue from the surfaces (both outer and inner) with an old reed as that won't damage the joint and use a sharp scalpel to gently scrape any glue off the tonehole countersink.
You'll need to refit the ring, so clean and degrease both the inside of the ring and the recess on the outside of the socket, then apply a thin, even layer of superglue around the circumference of the recess and let it go off. Make sure you put the ring back on the right way up! Then tap the ring down until there's no gap left (using a piece of wood and a hammer or a rawhide mallet so you don't damage anything). The layer superglue will ensure the ring is a tight fit and shouldn't fall off in the winter.
For the tonehole, you'll have to make a topper to smooth it out. Get a piece of round brass bar or anything you can machine a flat face on which you'll need to turn down to just under thye diameter of the countersunk area of the tonehole (probably around 13mm) and glue a piece of 500 to 800 grit abrasive paper to it. This is what you'll use to level the tonehole with, but go easy as you don't want to flatten it all out completely! Holding the topper against the tonehole, turn it by hand back and forth and keep checking until the tonehole is level.
If there are any chips in the tonehole rim, degrease it with alcohol and wait for the fumes to evaporate, then apply a small amount of superglue all around the entire tonehole rim (or bedplace) using a needle to apply it with. Let it go off for several minutes and then go over it with the topper to remove the excess glue. The superglue will fill any chips and any superglue inside the tonehole or around the countersunk part can be removed by carefully scraping with a sharp scalpel.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Rob Harold
Date: 2011-04-27 20:37
Wow, thanks for the step by step. Letting the glue "to go off" means letting the glue cure?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-27 21:19
Yeah - as superglue is a contact adhesive it takes a while to air-dry when there's nothing else in contact with it.
The complete opposite if you accidentally get some between your fingers and the clarinet. But it will set like plastic (which is what it is) and can then be worked on. Not a problem if you're using it to bond two close fitting pieces or as filler in conjunction with wood dust as it bonds on contact and can be worked on instantly. Definitely my favorite choice of filler for any chips or holes in instrument bodies.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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