 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Joarkh
Date: 2011-02-10 19:29
Hello all,
Yesterday I managed getting my Buffet swab stuck in my Bb Festival clarinet – nothing else to expect from trying to talk to someone and pull a Buffet swab through your clarinet at the same time. They really do require full concentration if you want it to come all the way through. As it was definitely stuck and I didn't want to pull off the register tube, I left it in the case and waited until I got home, where I cut it off with a scissor and eventually got it out. Therefore, I acquired a new, oversized piece of cloth made out of cotton that for some bizarre reason was sold under the heading "Clarinet Pull-Trough" today. Buying it wasn't that clever, but if only I had left it with that I could still have saved the day. Of course, I didn't. After practicing my A clarinet, I wanted to swab it. Clearly, oversized cotton swabs get stuck in A clarinet bores, and if I had used a little energy to think through it in advance, I might just have figured it out. Well, I didn't, so now I've got an A clarinet top joint filled with cotton.
I'm going to order a couple of silk swabs now, but in the meantime, I have a problem with my A clarinet. My question is as follows:
I am able to get to a tech in four weeks. Will my clarinet suffer excessive damage from having a cotton swab placed inside it for four weeks, or is it okay?
I've tried pushing it back and forth with pencils and the like, but nothing helps. It is really stuck due to its infintely large size, and I prefer to keep the register tube intact. Perhaps it will shrink a little as it dries and gets rid of some moisture?
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
Post Edited (2011-02-10 19:47)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-02-10 20:20
My suggestion would be to reach into the bore and grab the cloth with a pair of needle-nose pliers (a sturdy pair of tweezers may also be able to do the job) and pull it out the same way it came in. Trying to push it out from the other end with a pencil is just going to pack it in tighter.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-02-10 20:22
I admit I haven't used a cotton swab in a long time, but usually, when I get a swab stuck it isn't because of the size of the cloth - I've either forgotten to completely unfold it first or, if it's a string pull, the place where the string is attached is a little too big to pass the register tube easily.
Which direction did you pull these swabs in? Barrel to bell, bell to barrel or are you doing individual sections. Whichever direction you've dropped the swab, you might have more luck getting it out if you take off any sections that are attached to the left-hand section and _twist_ - don't pull - the swab from the entry end. You can usually work it free of the register tube by twisting around with little danger to the tube itself.
One thing you should never do is put a pencil or other similar object in through a tone hole to try to push on the stuck swab - by the time you realize how much pressure you're applying you may have taken a couple of chips out of the tone hole itself. I usually drop my swab in from the bell end, and if a swab gets stuck, I have occasionally used a metal rod like a flute cleaning rod and pushed the swab back, putting the rod in from the top of the joint and pushing the cloth toward the bottom end where it came in. Obviously, you have to be careful that you're only pushing the rod against the swab, not any part of the clarinet itself.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2011-02-10 20:38
Better to take your instrument to a skilled technician with a specialized tool to remove your swab.
Swabs should be simple but there are plenty made by people who don't get it. There are swabs on the market that stick too easily, and even are not absorbant. Go figure.
If it is any consolation, a friend, on the road, showed up on my doorstep a few years ago with his $10K oboe. His wife, trying to help, managed to get a silk swab stuck in it. He ended up borrowing an instrument in the next town, where a music store fixed things with their "swab-o-matic", not leaving a mark on the bore.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joel K.
Date: 2011-02-10 21:19
Next time, before you cut the swab, try continuosly twisting the swab where it comes out of the clarinet. That should free it up. Someone in my clarinet choir showed me that trick when I had the swab stuck and it worked like a charm.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: davetrow
Date: 2011-02-10 21:22
Be very, very careful about putting anything hard down your clarinet bore; the instrument can be extremely sensitive to scratches in the bore, especially if they intersect a tonehole. I found this out the hard way with my Backun-tuned R13 after trying to remove a stuck swab myself. Its chalumeau C# and D are now different in timbre from the notes around them.
After a careful inspection, my tech declined to attempt a fix, not being sure that the scratch was indeed the problem and preferring to follow the Hippocratic ideal. I won't be able to afford to send it back to Morrie for the foreseeable future. It's not unplayable, in fact, most of the time it's hardly noticeable, but it's not the instrument it was, either.
Dave Trowbridge
Boulder Creek, CA
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-02-10 22:03
Yesterday, I got a call from a Tenor Sax Student who (currently) is in District Band as I write.
His Tenor (Gem Silk) swab had gotten wedged into his neck - was about 1 inch back from the neck entrance (cork end) and since he had pulled the heck out of it trying to dislodge it, the swab was now just a 1 inch solid piece of material mass. When I say solid, I mean solid...... the student is a high school football playing big kid, who quickly pulled off the rope, and any loose bits of the swab.
I worked for about 20 minutes with the end of a screwdriver, given up quickly for a corkscrew, even a drill bit attached to a drill at really low speed to grab onto, or at least drill into and shread, but nothing at all worked.
I ended up telling him to go to a specialist, who ended up having to unsolder the octave tube in the neck to enable it to become dislodged.....
Kid's 1st chair in District Band, so he had major pressure to get that thing dislodged by the next day...
And the specialist was about an hour away - for which the dad had to go, and drop off, come back later to get.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kimber
Date: 2011-02-10 22:04
I have noticed that several new swabs are oversized on purpose with the intent that they are pulled into the bore and then pulled back out...never meant to be pulled through.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TianL
Date: 2011-02-10 22:29
try the doctor's swab:
http://www.doctorsprod.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=27
it has not stuck in my clarinet after i switched to it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-02-11 00:34
What Tian says. The Doctor's Black Legend swab is fantastic! It has never gotten stuck in any of my clarinets (an Evette, an R13, a Ridenour Lyrique or a Leblanc/Backun Symphonie). My daughter uses only this type of swab, and she plays an R13 Bb and A, as well as a eefer. Never gets stuck in ANY of them!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2011-02-11 00:35)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-02-11 00:50
If the speaker tube is loose (as they can be on Buffets) then remove the speaker key, use a wooden dowel or similar to push the speaker tube out from the bore and then your pullthrough should be ready to be pulled out using forceps or needle-nosed pliers. Then pop the speaker tube back in (push it firmly in place) and replace the speaker key then check it plays alright.
And as soon as you can, have the speaker tube removed and refitted properly - unless you can do this yourself in which case liquid shellac will be alright for this sort of thing, but only use a small amoint so it doesn't go everywhere (any excess shellac can be cleaned off with isopropyl alcohol on a rag or cotton bud/Q-tip).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-02-11 06:38
If you haven't already, buy a pair or two of alligator forceps. They aren't really expensive (especially when bought for non-surgical purposes off That Auction Site), but they are invaluable for getting stuff out of confined places.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Reedirect
Date: 2011-02-11 07:53
oh yes, these are fine, as they don't require extra space for opening somewhere else than at the very site of the swab.
I once pulled my usual swab through my tenor. Regretfully, I forgot to get out the champagne-cork I had thrown in for better response of the low Bb. I ended up with a real "Gordian Knot", which I but managed to get out after removing several cups!
I would, however, not lightheartedly try something even with secial instruments without having experience. If you damage the inside of the bore or chip off flakes from the tenon or let alone a tone hole (Gsus beware) you will be annoyed for many many months as you will be reminded of your failure as often as you put your instrument together!
Give it to a technician. He/she can certainly offer you a warranty for proper and damage-free removal!!
The cloth can remain in the clarinet for several weeks. It won't do any harm to the wood or the pads. But don't moisten it, don't dry it (don't dry it with a hair dryer...THAT can displace/damage the pads or even crack the wood).
Best
Jo
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joarkh
Date: 2011-02-11 12:14
I pulled it through from barrel to bell. I know that you may twist it, but this swab is so large it doesn't help. Also, I didn't push a pencil through any tone holes for obvious reasons, only from the top of the joint.
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joarkh
Date: 2011-02-11 12:26
It doesn't. Not this swab, it's definitely too large.
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joarkh
Date: 2011-02-11 12:28
I've ordered a couple of Howarth silk swabs. I live in Norway, so ordering from the US can be a test of patience.
Joar
Clarinet and saxophone teacher, clarinet freelancer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: danb1937
Date: 2011-02-11 12:56
NOT FOR THE INEXPERIENCED (and slightly off-topic):
One thing that worked for me on a straight soprano sax (after several failed attempts): Remove one of the palm keys, and with a small bladed screwdriver, carefully push the swab back toward the bell of the sax, being ESPECIALLY careful not to bend or damage any part of the tone hole chimney. Eventually the swab loosened enough to pull it out of the bell.
I do NOT recommend this for clarinets, as it is too easy (and likely) to damage either the tone hole or the bore.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-02-11 13:58
It is generally easier to work the swa and NOT have it get stuck, if you insert the swab from the bell end, rather than from the tuning barrel end.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-02-11 15:09
JJAlbrecht wrote:
> It is generally easier to work the swa and NOT have it get stuck, if you
> insert the swab from the bell end, rather than from the tuning barrel end.
That's why the bell is often referred to as "the funnel end" in certain online auctions. ![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
--
Ben
Post Edited (2011-02-11 15:10)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-02-11 15:40
I've used a Gigliotti swab for several years. It has a "tail" at the end that lets you pull it out if it jams.
A hemostat will hold almost any swab tight enough to pull it out backward. A curved one may or may not fit far enough up a tenor sax neck.
A flexible claw pickup, for example http://www.amazon.com/OEM-25291-Four-Claw-Pick/dp/B000CMFK0Q/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b, looks small enough to fit up the neck, but it may not grip tight enough to pull out a tightly jammed swab.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-02-11 15:45
Which reinforces the use of HW padsavers on saxes over pullthroughs as they won't get stuck in the bore (crook and body) and are far more effective at keepoing the bore clean as they're left in while the sax is in its case (which is where any instrument should be when not in use).
However I don't recommend them for use on clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-02-11 16:41
You won't get any lint from the HW ones as they're made from microfibre which is tightly wound on the wire core so won't shed many fibres at all (maybe a few to begin with). I've used them for 20 years in my own saxes with no trouble.
The earlier versions made with cotton threads in them caused a lot of fluff and some (such as the Helin ones) were far too thick so they would break the lower 8ve vent at the solder joint. The HW ones compress right down to the wire so won't get caught on anything on the way in or out.
To avoid them retaining too much water, tip out any excess water collected in the bow then put them in the bore, then remove and wipe the water off them (using your sleeve or a flannel to wipe them on) then replace them in the bore again and put the sax away.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BartHx
Date: 2011-02-13 21:35
There are generally two types of clarinet speaker tubes. 1 -- press in and 2 -- screw in. If there has been excessive force applied to the swab, the tube should be checked for possible damage. If you have a screw in tube (eg. older Selmers) it should be an easy matter to unscrew it to remove the swab. A press in requires some pressure carefully applied to the end of the tube inside the bore (probably need to get the swab out of the way, first). If the tube is undamaged, the traditional installation is to put warm bees wax on the threads or where the tube contacts the wood and putting it back in (making sure there is enough to prevent any leaks). Excess can be easily wiped off after it cools and bees wax is fairly easy to get from hobby stores, leather working stores, etc.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BartHx
Date: 2011-02-13 21:42
Unless you are a professional repair tech, Ferree's has a lifetime supply (1/2 pound) of bees wax for under $15.
Post Edited (2011-02-13 21:43)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-02-22 17:19
Chris P. addressed the lint problem that comes from the cotton swabs. Rob from Muncy Winds overhauled my R13 nearly three years ago and warned me about the problem of lint from cotton swabs. I now use the Doctors Black Silk Swab (that someone else mentioned) and it only started to get stuck when I was in a hurry and not paying attention to what I was doing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2011-02-22 19:30
A tool used by oboists for stuck swab removal can be made by silver soldering a brass screw with cut off head on to a 3mm brass rod, making a loop in the other end of the brass rod.
On the oboe, all you do is to screw the tool into the stuck swab and pull it out. I've made several of these and carry one in my oboe case and been useful several times. It has a piece of turquoise mounted in the handle, by the way.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
