 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: iThinkMac
Date: 2010-09-17 00:35
He is starting band in Elementary School. I have no idea where to begin.
Buying or renting him a clarinet will guarrantied a spot in band. If borrowing from school, then it's lottery.
There's a gazillion clarinets out there, craigslist, rentals, amazon, etc...
My many frantic google leads me to this board.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, all.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-09-17 00:44
lol. Well, I'm glad you found this board. We'll educate ya.
Check THIS thread for clarinets to avoid....
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=20&i=357&t=357
You'll get many answers here, but it's tough to go wrong with a student model from the "big four". Here in clarinetland, we're talking about Yamaha, Buffet, Leblanc, and Selmer.
I've heard more good things about Yamaha student clarinets than others.
You can also look into other lesser brands that have a good following on this board, such as the Ridenour clarinets and Forte clarinet.
It's kinda vague, but for someone starting band, you wanna stay cheap, and durable. The student models work well. If after a few years he's still playing and loving it, start looking into upgrading stuff.
And MOST important, get a quality mouthpiece. 35 - 50 bucks will get you a Clark Fobes Debut mouthpiece. Great starter mouthpiece.
After that, sit back and enjoy!
Alexi
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-09-17 00:46
PS - Use the search feature on this board for your questions. And also for this exact question (try the search terms "Beginner clarinet" and other variations). There's a wealth of knowledge and opinions.
Alexi
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-09-17 01:44
What Alexi said! Check to see if any kids at the school dropped band from last year. Their parents might have a used instrument they don't want any more, and be willing to part with it for cheap. Take it to a good nearby shop for an inspection before agreeing to buy it.
Good models to consider:
Buffet B12
Yamaha YCL 250
Vito
Student grade Selmers (Not sure of model)
Also look at these websites:
The Doctor's Products http://www.doctorsprod.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=53 for the Forte clarinet
Ridenour Clarinet Products http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/clarinets.htm for Lyrique Clarinets.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: ddavani
Date: 2010-09-17 02:57
I would look into the Leblanc by Backun Bliss Clarinet. There are three different models: $400 (all composite material), $600 (composite material with a hand made wood barrel), or $1,100 (all wood instrument). It's a great instrument with small variations in the way the instrument plays based on the material. It plays like a professional clarinet, though it's designed for the student clarinetist. If your son is considering staying in band all through high school, it would be a very good idea to invest in one of them.
http://www.backunmusical.com/clarinetsb.html
In addition, they look really cool and are well built, your son by far will be the envy of all his classmates and it is guaranteed to please.
If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.
Hope this helps in your search!
-Dave Davani
http://allclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: haberc
Date: 2010-09-17 03:35
I would also look at Ebay. But, only at sites that guarantee a 100% money back guarantee. Find a reputable seller on ebay, there are many selling clarinets, and you can find a real deal. As far as what to buy, listen to the other responses on this thread. For a beginner, Yamaha 20, Buffet 12, Ridenour 147, Vito. Vitos are everywhere, and they are legend. You can't beat a vito 7212 in good shape. wonderful and easy to play. Good luck.
haberc@earthlink.net
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-09-17 06:33
Well, an elementary school student will have limited stamina and he/she won't have big enough hands initially... this has led to the existence of say Nuvo Clarineo, which was designed to be a low cost, low maintenance and more ergonomically friendly option for the child as a first instrument of the clarinet family.
Some also choose to start the child on full-fledged but smaller sized brethren of the family, with I think C and Eb...
Generally speaking however, most individual should start from run of the mill Bb regular sized clarinet that you see everywhere. This is what the previous posts have all recommended.
What is highly recommended for a first clarinet is for the instrument to made of durable material. The ones that have been listed atop are made of ABS resin or Ebonite hard rubber or some other composite material. Allow your child to develop proper maintenance skills on a more forgiving instrument is vital.
The first thing I need to say regarding getting a first clarinet is that you should make sure that the clarinet is properly serviced. The most discouraging thing for the child is to get the blame for a technical issue that stems from the horn. New or used instruments from a reputable repairperson's workshop or from a specialized dealership will alleviate that issue.
A second matter is the matter of commitment on your and the child's behalf. Musical education if force fed to a child isn't going to get him or her far typically. You should budget expecting that the child might decide to do something else. Keep in mind that a clarinet does need servicing, generally annually in music programs in high school, so that will be a running cost on your part.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2010-09-17 18:12
most band directors put out a list of recommended equipment, and the name and contact information for local music stores.
start there - ask the band director
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-09-17 20:46
Edit: While I was working on my message, Paul posted his. Actually, his is much more succinct and, frankly, the best advice in this thread by a wide margin. So you can follow it and forget about what I (and everyone else) have written.
Let me see if I understand your situation. You are looking for a clarinet that your son can play in elementary school band. (Which rules out all of Franklin Lao's obscure suggestions of nuvo clarino, C, Eb, etc. because the band won't have music for them.) You want a clarinet that your child should be able to play out-of-the-box with no worries. You really don't know much, if anything, about clarinets. (These last two together should rule out Craigslist and eBay where you might find a good instrument at a good price but you really have to know what you're doing or you can get burned. The problem is that, if you buy a used clarinet with a defect, you probably won't recognize it and your son won't realize the instrument has a problem and he'll simply think the clarinet is outrageously difficult.) You don't tell us how much you can afford so I'll let that pass for the time being. Also, while it appears your son would like to join the band, you don't indicate any special level of interest in music.
If you have a musical instrument store nearby that has a large band instrument department, I think your safest bet would be to obtain a new or gently used student model plastic Bb clarinet there. Plastic will be lighter than wood and easier for your son to handle. It will also be sturdier and lower cost than wood. If something isn't quite right or needs repair down the road, it should be easier to get it fixed at a local seller, often at little or no charge.
The number of student models, even from the major manufacturers has grown quite a bit in the last several years, making it hard to know what to buy (or rent). For you, I would recommend focusing on the following instruments (their asking price from large internet sellers is in parenthses):
Buffet B12 ($450 - $610)
Yamaha YCL 250 (~ $820)
Vito (Leblanc) 7242 ($350)
Vito (Leblanc) 7250 ($450)
Leblanc Bliss 320 ($800 - $825)
Selmer 1400B ($310)
Bundy (Selmer) BCL300 ($300)
Any of these clarinets should be adequate to get your son started and, if he becomes serious about clarinet, will serve as a good marching band/bad weather instrument if you buy him a higher-level clarinet down the road.
Rent or buy?
The advantages of renting are: (1) if your son decides to quit after a short time, you are only out a few months' rent, (2) under most rental contracts, if your son's instrument needs repairs, the store will normally take care of it quickly, often at no cost to you. The primary disadvantages of renting are: (1) limited selection of instrument, and (2) in a rent-to-own, the total cost can be significantly higher than the cost to purchase outright. (When my daughter started clarinet, quite a few years ago, the total of 12-months rent would have been about $650 for an instrument we could have purchased for $350.)
Note, however, that if you buy and your son decides not to continue on the instrument, you can always sell the instrument on eBay and recover some of your original cost. I would say that, if you expect your son to stick with the instrument for about a year, you are better off buying. If you do decide to rent, focus on renting one of the instruments I have listed above. If the store says their rental instruments are equivalent to one or more of the above models, please feel free to e-mail me and I will be happy to tell you whether I think their assertion is correct.
If you decide to buy and can find one of the above instruments at a local store, I think it would be worth paying more (say 10%) for the local support if you can afford it. If cost is a serious consideration, then consider the two Selmer clarinets. The Bundy is available at:
http://www.wwbw.com/
and the 1400B is available at:
http://shop.weinermusic.com/
both, large and reputable internet sellers. If you want a clarinet that has received very good reviews and might carry your son a little farther than some of the other models I've identified and can spend around $600, you might consider a "lightly used" Bliss 320 from another reputable internet seller, Kessler Music:
http://www.kesslermusic.com/
J.J. Albrecht recommended the Forte clarinet and the Ridenour clarinet. I think it might be worth contacting Omar Henderson about the Forte. While others will disagree, some vehemently, I cannot recommend the Ridenour in your situation.
In addition to a clarinet, unless you buy the Bliss, I would recommend that you purchase a good student mouthpiece. Given that the manufacturer is in San Francisco, I might recommend a Fobes Debut.
Your son will also need reeds. For a beginner, using a Fobes Debut (or other low resistance student mouthpiece), Rico Royal #2 reeds are an adequate inexpensive starting point.
Whatever you decide, I hope you are setting your son on a path to great enjoyment.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2010-09-17 20:51)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-09-17 22:12
I would be wary of the new Bundy. f I understand correctly, these are now Chinese clarinets made under contract for WWBW, and not affiliated with Selmer, like they used to be. I believe WWBW licensed the use of the name.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-09-17 23:15
(Read Jack Kissinger's response, realized how little care I've put into parsing the original query. Sorry about that)
More and more student line instruments are made in China, with the Yamaha YCL-250 being an example (not that it's really a cardinal sin). I think that the modern B-12s are still made in France, while the Bliss I know for certain are made in Elkhart Indiana. My own personal preference for a first Bb clarinet is the Bliss since that thing has 10 years part warranty, whether it'd be the composite or the all wood version.
Post Edited (2010-09-17 23:17)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-09-18 04:28
Sorry that my post is not necessarily an answer to the OP, but just to clarify some information posted here.
JJAlbrecht is correct about the new Bundy made for WW&BW. I'm also not sure where the Conn-Selmer (fka Selmer USA) clarinets are made, possibly China too, with the exception of their Bliss models which I think is correct that they are made in USA.
I'm not sure Franklin is correct that Yamaha 250 is made in China. Some might be, but I think some are/were made in Indonesia. He is also not correct about "modern B-12s are still made in France". Not only they are not still made there, I'm not sure they were ever made in France. At least not for a very long time. Plastic Buffet clarinet were made in Germany for many years, but for a time more recently they were made in China. However now that Buffet bought Schreiber, I don't know where they are made.
But I wouldn't necessarily avoid Chinese clarinets. In the past they were really awful. But now there are very decent ones. It's all about the importer knowing what to import and the player (preferably with their teacher) trying the clarinet. At first I was surprised to find Chinese clarinets that would be completely fine for any beginner, at a fraction of the cost of a known brand name. The importer and seller (though they might be the same) also needs to guarantee the clarinet is in good condition before sale and give a good warrenty.
In addition I can also recommend some of the models: Yamaha 250, Leblanc Bliss, Buffet B12 (though a bit disapointing in build quality for some time, but plays very nice IMO), possibly any Chinese clarinet that you can try and know is decent quality. Amati student model might also be a consideration but I'm disapointed with their build quality and setup often (and ones I've tried also came with a terrible mouthpiece).
Vitos were recently reported by several repairers to come new with many faults and setup problems. If I remember, some might have returned them for that reason. So check more carefully. Does anyone know where Vitos are made now?
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-09-18 07:15
I will have to redress Clarnibass on part this while acknowledge error!
Yamaha are manufacturing the 250s at Xiaoshan (suburb of Hangzhou), Zhejiang province of China. This is something that Chinese resellers and discussion boards have stated.
On Buffet, citing Kessler, the B-12 would be made in Germany still. I made a mistake on that... it was the E-11 that moved to France. According to Chris P, if any B-12 have Made in France label on'em, they be counterfeit.
Vito were of Kenosha Wisconsin made, I don't know if that still holds true. Will check on this.
Post Edited (2010-09-18 07:32)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-09-18 07:35
>> Yamaha are manufacturing the 250s at Xiaoshan (suburb of Hangzhou), Zhejiang province of China. This is something that Chinese resellers have stated on their website. <<
Maybe I remember wrong. Like I said, I'm not sure about this. But I think I remember that some Yamaha clarinets are made in Indonesia. I'll check when I see them if it says anything.
>> On Buffet, citing Kessler, the B-12 would be made in Germany still. I made a mistake on that... it was the E-11 that moved to France. <<
E11 didn't exactly move to France. They started making a new model called E11 France, made in France. It has significant differences from the German E11. Re Buffet plastic models, it was first a repairer who said he thought Buffet plastic models are made in China. I then asked Buffet and they confirmed that they were made there. I don't know when they started having them made there or if any still are, but for a time they were, confirmed by Buffet.
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-09-18 07:40
thomas.b on a visit to Schreiber did state that:
"Now Schreiber and Buffet are divorced: Buffet announces a new E11 and Schreiber introduces a bunch of Boehm clarinets...either Buffet labels some E13s as E11 und Schreiber produces some nearly-E11 or both companies have additional development efforts which seems difficult in the actual economic situation..."
and I would speculate that it is the Leblanc factory in La Couture Boussey where the E11 France are now being made. This would coincide with Clarinibass and Kessler. I don't see the German made E-11 on Buffet at all.
Granted, things might change now that Schreiber-Keilwerth who used to make the E11s are now part of Buffet as of April of 2010.
The student priced Schreiber "limited edition" E11 are available at kessler's when I checked his site. Gemstone used to distribute for Schreiber in USA, but that is no longer the case.
On Yamaha, Gordon (NZ) during 2004 did state that he found 250s made in Indonesia. We do know for certain that Yamaha manufacture parts in Indonesia. Who knows if the Chinese plant in Xinjiang is only concerned with the final assembly and fitting...
Anyways, much apology for derailing this discussion.
Post Edited (2010-09-18 09:57)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-09-18 13:58
You can often find some of the previous generation models, for example the Yamaha 20, at a fraction of the cost that the current models would cost. I like the Yamaha student instruments very much. They are very well designed, play very well are even and in tune. That is far more than I can say about many models available, including some mentioned above.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2010-09-18 15:53
Just remember that if you buy a used clarinet (plastic in particular) chances are that it wasn't cared for properly, so you will need to factor in the cost and time to get it worked on by a repair person.
I say plastic as that's a starter model and typically kids starting out don't swab hardly ever, and if they do it's with a crappy swab that doesn't really do anything.
But any used Clarinet should be checked over by a tech, or at least a teacher.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: ddavani
Date: 2010-09-18 17:31
David is right about the servicing cost, that can sometimes turn out being more expensive than the used clarinet itself. Best shot I'd say is to get an inexpensive clarinet out of synthetic material new. You won't have to worry about problems if you're getting a new plastic Bliss or Yamaha. I would say it's worth the investment, and if things don't work out, you can always get a large percentage back selling it on Ebay.
-Dave Davani
http://allclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: Ian White
Date: 2010-09-18 20:54
'Best shot I'd say is to get an inexpensive clarinet out of synthetic material new'
But do stick to known brands & do not be tempted by $90 rubbish on the well known on line auction.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2010-09-19 01:55
what about an old Vito or Bundy off eBay and have a good tech overhaul it? Likely wouldn't cost $100 for the horn and $250 for the overhaul. Total cost $350 and you have a decent student horn that will do what it needs to do for a long time to come. Those old Vitos and Bundys were very well built! Better than most of the rubbish on the new student horn market today!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-09-19 04:25
>> a crappy swab that doesn't really do anything. <<
The crappiest swabs do quite a lot... they can leave fluff which often gets into the tone holes and eventually, with a bunch of stuff "gluing" it, create what I call 'tone hole bird nests'. These harden and become problematic and often impossible to remove by sticking an ear cleaner in the tone hole, needing more thorough cleaning.
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