 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2010-09-07 15:03
OK- so we all know that the clarinet tends to go sharp as we make a diminuendo, and that we have to work hard to keep the pitch in tune as we get softer. My question is whether different instruments, played with the same mouthpiece, can have more or less of this tendency. I have a very nice instrument that tends to do this a lot compared to my normal R13. I must add that this happens only in the low register. Has anybody had any similar experiences? Any ideas why this might be, and/or ways to solve the problem?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-09-07 16:31
> I have a very nice instrument that tends to do this a lot
> compared to my normal R13.
...with the same mouthpiece/reed?
Anyhow, I think that one unconsciously compensates the lack of airstream with a tighter embouchure, and as the amplitude of the vibrating reed is smaller, it will vibrate gradually more and more near the tip only and less over its whole length.
If you push the same amount of air through the mouthpiece, you have to dampen the reed with your embouchure, but this will lead to an airy, breathy sound.
So far my theory and what I experience to a larger extent with the bass clarinet.
Would a brass instrument change its pitch as well when played softly?
--
Ben
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-09-07 18:23
The tendency to sharpness in pianissimo is greatly affected by the acoustic design of the instrument.
Bore size, tonehole size and degree of undercutting are just 3 factors that seem to influence this.
Instruments with relatively small diameter toneholes and little or no undercut seem to be much more stable in pitch as the dynamic changes and it does seem to be most noticeable in the chalumeau register and especially in the RH G/A/B area.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2010-09-07 21:05
Ben- yes, with the same mouthpiece/reed.
Norman, that's interesting what you said. It is exactly the chalumeau notes in the RH G/A/B area which give me the most trouble. However, in contradiction to what you wrote, apparently this instrument (the one that tends to go quite sharp when played softly in the low register) has very little undercutting of the toneholes. Perhaps it has more to do with the diameter of the toneholes? I'll try to measure them and see if they are wider in comparison to my R13.
It's strange because I've never experienced this before. It's a beautiful sounding instrument, so it's a real pity I can't get it to play in tune.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-09-07 22:09
Most brass players go sharper as they get louder and flatter at very soft levels unless they're good enough to compensate.
Karl
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2010-09-08 10:27
Liquorice wrote:
>> I have a very nice instrument that tends to do this [go sharp in diminuendo in the low register] a lot compared to my normal R13. Any ideas why this might be, and/or ways to solve the problem?>>
It's to do with the two instruments having their tube resonances in different places.
The sounding pitch of the instrument -- which is necessarily harmonic, remember, consisting of a fundamental frequency plus integer multiples of that frequency -- is essentially determined by the interaction of the vibrating reed and the position of the fundamental, second and third resonances of the tube. Since those resonances are not usually in whole-number-ratio relationships, due both to natural physical constraints and (often) to instrument design, having more or less upper harmonics in the sound can change the pitch at which the instrument 'runs'.
Since as you diminuendo, the proportion of upper harmonics in the sound decreases, this explains the change of pitch. It happens to be the case in clarinet design that usually, the direction is upwards, because of the flare in the lower part of the instrument.
See:
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/lookup.php/Klarinet/1999/01/000043.txt
...and see Benade, op. cit., p476 para A, and p462 21.6 ex 3.
I don't think there's a lot to be done about this on your instrument without modifying the bore.
Tony
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2010-09-08 19:03
I think it doesn't matter what kind of instrument do you play on. What is important is to maintain the same air stream in p and f. Or at least the same feeling. In decresendo I blow with the same speed but less amount of air. Maybe it appears a complete mess, but it isn't.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2010-09-08 21:38
sonicbang- I'm not sure you understood my question. I have an instrument which reacts differently to the one I normally play on. So blowing the 2 instruments in the same way (the way I personally blow into a clarinet) causes one of them to go more sharp in quiet playing than the other.
Tony- thanks for the information. I think I understand the acoustics of the clarinet a tiny little bit better now! (It still seems a subject which is way beyond my understanding) But I think that your idea of adjusting the bore is probably the way to go. I had an interesting experience today:
I was visiting a clarinet maker with some reproduction period clarinets that I play on. There are certain tuning problems which he thought it would be good to look into. He pulled out a rod with a thick bit stuck on the end. When I played, he inserted the rod into the bell-end of my clarinet and moved it up and down the bore. This effectively makes the bore narrower at the place where the thick bit is. The results on the tuning were quite astonishing to me. For example- on one instrument the 12ths in the right hand (eg. G/D and A/E) were too narrow. When the bore was made slightly narrower at the bottom end of the left hand joint, this made the RH 12ths in question wider. Of course, this probably has an effect on other registers and interval proportions. We'll have to do a lot more experimenting before making bore adjustments, but what I have realised is that the shape of the bore is quite a complicated issue! I'm sure people have studied this already, but it's all new to me.
Post Edited (2010-09-08 21:39)
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