 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2010-09-04 02:08
Hello everyone,
To start, I would really like to thank you all for such a great resource. I am a freshman in college who has just started classes and really appreciate all of the advice that I've been given on this forum.
Onto the issue: I went through two auditions for college ensembles (yesterday and today) and, during both times, I started off with a bad response/squeak. I've checked through all of my screws, made sure that my equipment is in good condition, reed is okay - and then I figure out that my keys are just sticking to the clarinet, making the response not the most... reliable, I guess. I asked another clarinetist who is currently a junior before the audition how to solve this sticking problem; he told me to oil the keys. I have had key oil sitting in my case for about a year now; how do I use it? Thank you. Any videos/images would be especially helpful. (I *am* dealing a wooden clarinet.)
EDIT: I did mention this sticking problem to my clarinet professor (I've only seen him during these auditions) - he told me it's caused by the humidity in the air - it's been extremely humid lately.
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
Post Edited (2010-09-04 02:11)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-09-04 04:50
Sticking can happen from a lot of things. I assume you mean the key hinges of some keys get stuck, binding when trying to turn, and not the pads sticking to th tone holes. If you do mean the pads, it's a different problem.
- Keys can stick from being not being fitted correctly i.e. the hinge too long for the distance between the posts.
- Sometimes the problem is some keys fit "too accurate" for the specific location, so they will only bind in some weather e.g. when it's very cold, the body might shrink more than the hinge.
- Keys can also bind, especially those mounted on rod screws, because of some dirt, gumi left overs, etc. inside the hinge tube.
- Another reason is a loose post, usually one with a spring on it, slightly tilting or turning by the force of the spring, essentially reducing the distance between the posts.
- Possibly a hinge, rod screw, or both, got bent, even just a little.
- Maybe some keys were always binding, but relied on key oil to mask it, now with oil gone, they bind again.
- Headless pivot screws can "screw thsmelves" in more if they are loose, and same pivot screws with heads that were never screwed in tight enough (or where the head is only cosmetic).
- Humidity can cause stuff to get inside hinge tubes, even making rod screws rust sometimes, causing them to stick.
These are the main reasons but there are probably more I forget at the moment. With all of them, oiling won't really help as a good reliable solution. It might help temporarily. Best to find the actual reason for binding and fix it. Keys shouldn't stick even without oil.
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2010-09-04 05:25
It's the pads sticking to the tone holes, yes. If oil is not used in this case, then when do I need to use key oil?
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-09-04 06:05
OK, so your problems is completely different - pads sticking to tone holes. That can happen from temperature and humidity, or dirt on the pads and/or the tone holes. The way to fix the problem depends on the reason they are sticking. Cleaning the pads and/or tone holes can help, e.g. with lighter fluid or sometimes alcohol is ok too. Sometimes using a type of dust e.g. Yamaha powder papers or the same made yourself with talc (make sure not to put more than a tiny amount). Both solutions can last from only a few minutes to a long time, depending on the situation. Some pads are just a type that becomes sticky with humidity (depends more on the specific model and not so much on the type of pad).
I'm also experimeting with a few other methods to make pads not stick. One is gluing teflon powder to the pad surface, making the touching and sealing surface a non-stick teflon. At least two repairers found this to help. This so far seemed not very successful when I tried it. The other is making pads with a thin teflon sheet surface. I've only tried this a couple of times and it helped in those times.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-09-04 11:49
From own experience, reason #1 for sticky pads (bladder at least, not leather) is drinking sweetened soda before/while playing. Sugar sticks like hell.
In such cases, I use a damp microfiber cloth drawn out between the gently closed key and the tone hole, as one would do with a dollar bill or powder papers. Then iron the wrinkled wet pad with a carefully heated pocket knife blade. (This only works well if the pad is sufficiently new and doesn't have tonehole impression rings on it already)
I would avoid powders and powdery papers if possible. They just add residue which in the long run will stick even more.
--
Ben
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-09-04 14:39
Sounds like your instrument could benefit from a complete disassembly and cleaning of the pads and toneholes. Take it to a good shop where they have a competent tech,and have it done right.
As to how to clean and oil the key mechanism,have the tech show you after you get the instrument back. OR check out Tom Ridenour's videos on youtube about oiling key mechanisms. Do it at least once a year.
http://www.youtube.com/billyboy647#p/u/77/3PvJrSpSHA8
http://www.youtube.com/billyboy647#p/u/76/JTdWrRH2MGI
Start with those two and progress from that point.
The videos can be a little hokey at times, but they get the info across.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2010-09-04 14:53)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-09-04 15:38
Ironically, sticking pads often happens when the pads seal really well and evenly.
Other than cleaning/changing the pads, you can have the springs adjusted so that they have more "opening" force to them.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-09-04 16:01
You've been good advise but consider this. It's possible that some of the pads are sticking because the pads indent where they touch the tone hole are very slightly torn. It only takes one or two to cause the problem. It could also be a result of a tiny bit of grease, body oil, or dirt on the top of some of the tone holes. Without taking the horn apart what I suggest you try, it the other suggestions didn't work, is using your silk swab or other thin soft material, dampen a corner and place it under each pad. Gently press on the pad and pull it out several times cleaning anything on the pad or top of the tone hole. Just make sure you press gently and the material is not to thick. Also, as suggested, loosen each screw on the clarinet and then retighten till they stop but make sure they are not binding and place a drop of oil in each joint where there is a screw, even as you loosen them. It is alway possible that the metal rods are slightly binding at some point, you can tell that by looking at each joint very closely. If that's the case the rod has to be filed down just a tiny bit. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: William
Date: 2010-09-04 17:04
All valid advice given regarding cleaning of tone hole rims and pads--however, in my long experiance as a teacher and clarinetist, I have found that the only real solution to a sticky pad is to replace it. And that is best left to the repair tech.
I would also suggest an "once of prevention"--brush your teeth (tongue & cheeks) BEFORE you play, EVERY TIME. This will prevent all the yucky gunk from you foods, sodas, etc getting onto your pads via your saliva in the first place. This may sound like the classic nerd to you, but I have a toothbrush and toothpaste in everyone of my clarinet and saxophone cases as well as my instrument stand gig bag. But nerd or not--MY PADS NEVER STICK, ever. Even with drastic humidity changes, I have been fortunate never to have to deal with pads sticking to the tone holes. Sluggish rods, sometimes, but to remedy those, I rely on oil. I might also add to this "rant", please be sure to thoroughly swab your bore after EVERY use. Use a silk, hankerchief style swab and frequent clean or change it. This is also preventative maintainance we clarinetists all must practice after every playing session. And don't forget to clean your mouthpiece frequently (I frequently swab mine, but that is controversial :>)
Like that dentist of TV admonishes, "Brush & Floss", I say, "Brush & Swab" or your pads will continue to stick.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-09-04 22:32
During the many years of playing and repairing horns, it's a bit unusual for the keys to be frozen. In humid conditions I'm guessing your pads are sticking. Try something easy to do. Take a very thin piece of paper and slide it between the pad and the key hole. GENTLY, close the key and slide the paper out, Do this a few times and see if you are experiencing the same problem. Wood clarinets are soaked in oil before assembly. Sometimes the oil leaks out and causes the pads to stick.
I may be different from others regarding oil, but I like a thicker oil. I use a drop of synthetic oil because the oil doesn't gum up and wear down the metal. Key oil is too thin in my opinion.
Some repairmen have been known to use vasiline "spelling?" mainly with sax repairs and older clarinets.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2010-09-04 23:00
Thanks everyone! I had to (carefully) unscrew the joints that were usually problematic, put in oil - and after doing so, I figured that it wasn't the keys that were problematic. The one that was causing the most problems with sticking was the register key - I unscrewed it, cleaned the pad, and found a bunch of grease on it. After cleaning it, the problem was fixed. I'm trying to figure out how to clean the side keys (the four on the right while playing) without wrecking the springs (i.e. it's best to take them out and clean them - putting a swab under them didn't seem to work).
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-09-05 04:47
>> I would avoid powders and powdery papers if possible. They just add residue which in the long run will stick even more. <<
That absolutely doesn't happen if using the correct amount of the correct powder. Of course this is not necessarily the best solution either. This helps when cleaning doesn't and the sticking is coming from the pad itself and replacing the pad is'nt an option for various possible reasons, or that replacing the pad won't help to solve the problem.
Post Edited (2010-09-05 06:12)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-09-05 10:13
clarnibass wrote:
> (...) if using the correct amount of the correct powder. (...)
Which always leaves room for interpretation, and operator error. ;-)
--
Ben
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-09-05 14:03
I'm trying to figure out how to clean the side keys (the four on the right while playing) without wrecking the springs (i.e. it's best to take them out and clean them - putting a swab under them didn't seem to work).
The 4 trill keys on the right should not stick so much. Perhaps there is a bond that you have to "break" when you first take the clarinet out to play, but do they really consistently stick over and over???
If so, the pads should be changed.
I think that some of us thought you were talking about the "open keys" like the F/C key and E/B key that you press down and then it doesn't open again when you remove your finger.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-09-05 17:10
As I said before, they may be sticking because of the rim around the pad created by the tone hole. It may have a very slight tear in them or just sticking to the rim because of some dirt or grease. You should probably have cork pads there anyway so the best advise is to replace the pads. The very least is to take them off and check and clean throughly. I've never had that problem with my cork pads. I always suggest cork in all the top joint pads except for the Bb-Eb 1/1 key but I know some people have different opinions on that. ESP
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2010-09-07 02:21
To clean a pad without damaging the finish underneath I take an alcohol swab and the wrapper packet that it came in, I turn inside out so that the shiny side is facing the pad. I wet the wrapper's shiny side with the alcohol swab and place the shiny side of the wrapper between the pad and the clarinet body. Close the pad and lightly press on the pad and pull out the "wrapper".
Pad cleaned
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-09-07 04:36
>> Which always leaves room for interpretation, and operator error. ;-) <<
Of course, but your comment was that it only did that (i.e. eventually created a more sticky mess), which is what I wanted to clarify.
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