 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: senexclarinetta
Date: 2023-10-30 21:49
Hi all,
I play a ca. 1980s Leblanc LL eefer (Vandoren B40/Legere Euro 2.75) and while it's intonation is overall not hopeless, it runs a little (+10c) sharp in the upper clarion and a little flat (-10-15c) for the E/F altissimo. I can manage with alternate fingerings but it's a little more temperamental than I remember the school's Noblet being in high school (or my ear has improved.)
I am planning to move up in reed strength after some experiments with cut-down Vandoren Trad/V12 3s, and I'm interested in barrels with the cutback feature. I'd like to stick with Legere as I'm usually switching between Bb and Eb.
The barrels, however, are quite pricy, and there's no nearby place where I can try them, and so I wanted to get some feedback on what people like and what has worked.
What difference does a good barrel make to the tone? Worth it for more than the convenience of having the cutout?
Thanks for any insight. This instrument has a beautiful tone and it's a lot of fun, but man, what a little devil.
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-10-31 17:25
I have not found much difference in tone by changing barrels, but it makes a dramatic improvement on intonation.
I don't care about the cutouts since I play on V12 eb reeds. My setup is currently a B44 mouthpiece, 3.5 V12 eb reeds, and a Noblet 45 Artist eb.
My eb also plays sharp upper clarion notes and flat altissimo notes, I believe this is inherent to the Leblanc/Noblet bore design, especially when paired with larger bore mouthpieces. Some day, I want to try and find a stock leblanc or noblet eb mouthpiece and see if it tunes better with the stock barrel, as I suspect the inside of the stock mp is very different from the Vandoren.
I fixed the clarion notes (and also flat throat tones) on my instrument with a custom made barrel, which I made myself. I think the Behn, Fobes, Backun or other options would help you out with these notes. You can alway mail order them, try them out and return them if you don't like the change.
From my experience, there is not much you can do to get the altissimo notes to magically get sharper. I found different mouthpieces and reeds will make the altissimo speak better but not a lot of improvement in intonation. You have to change your voicing and/or alternate fingers to get the better intonation.
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2023-10-31 23:52
I've never been a big fan of the cutout barrels as it takes away the option of rotating the barrel to, perhaps, find a more advantageous response (yes, I know this sounds "out there" but try it before you criticize!).
Being on the low side from altissimo E and above is not inherent to just the Leblanc/Noblet family but for a good many of Eb instruments. You can raise the pitch to a respectable level by adding the RH sliver key or the LH first finger G# key, depending on both the exact note and/or your particular instrument. Try it and see if this might work for you.
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Author: senexclarinetta
Date: 2023-11-01 00:46
I'll try the RH sliver; I use the G# key now to get the E in tune but I need more practice in getting it down in fast passages. I can mostly keep it under control with careful attention to voicing but I feel like I am working very hard.
FWIW the stock Leblanc was a little worse for intonation and far worse for tone. The B40 for me is very full and colorful (for an eefer.).
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-11-01 04:31
a deg shorter barrel transformed my bundy into an absolute monster eefer. altisimo is dead on in tune now. i do have to lip the throat tones down a bit but its worth the trade off. the fantastic bay mpc also helps
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2023-11-01 06:04
Hi,
I have a custom-made Leblanc Eb badged from the factory as an L300 but really a LL and have been lucky enough to have had a dealership and tried lots of barrels for the horn.
Currently have;
Standard barrel
a couple of Concerto II barrels
Backun cocobolo
Backun tulipwood
Backun tulip wood bell and grenadilla bell
Concerto bell
Standard bell with no bell ring as per the L300 of the day
I tuned and voiced the horn to which in my opinion it responded very well, tuning wise now I have not tried any better. I think the tuning from the factory was well short of the potential of the horn. I did a lot of work here. IMHO these horns once they are tweaked are great....
Regarding barrels/bells I am now using the tulip wood barrels/bells. sound is a bit rounder, likely less projection. In my opinion a good compromise given the nature of the horn. The tenon socket on the Leblancs is much shorter than the socket on the buffets. So I use spacers for the Backun barrel. I have also bought longer barrels and turned down the tenon to remove the gap. As a general rule in my opinion this gap can have a bigger impact than on Bb (for good or bad, usually bad)
As with most Eb horns the top end has its moments. From the E on with most instruments they go flat. I have tuned the E so that it is a tad sharp with the bis key. For me in quick runs it takes away the painfully flat E if you cant use the Bis key, still flat though. I use the short F (overblown D/A) and two side keys for the F# as for me mechanically it allows me to get around problems.
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-11-01 17:43
crazyclari's comment about the tenon gap reminded me about something on my instrument. When I pull the barrel out too much, the gap between the barrel and top joint causes both the throat E AND the altissimo E to become very flat. They seem to move together on my instrument, tuning-wise.
Is your throat tone E also flat on your eb? If so, maybe a tuning ring between the joint will fix many problems.
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Author: senexclarinetta
Date: 2023-11-02 03:20
The throat E is nearly dead on, just a tad sharp.
Do the Backun (Buffet) barrels fit the Leblanc ?
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-11-02 04:36
It will be a very loose fit. You may need the cork redone or wrap the tenon cork in tape or something to get a seal while testing.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2023-11-02 10:48
These are great horns once tweaked. As noted they tend not to have the flat notes that the polycylindrical designs seem to have. E.g. your flatter throat E and notes above. Top B and C tend to sit quite well.
I did not mention imo the tuning is better as well with the Backun. There are two bores one for selmers and one for Buffets. I believe the selmer bore is very slighty larger, but am open on that one. I am using a selmer tulip wood barrel and bell on my D. I have tried the Selmer on the Eb and found little if any noticeable difference tuning wise. The tone on this particular barrel is sensational.
If you get the chance have a play with a number of different lengths. Clearly you will have little wiggle room with the length but again slight changes can make certain notes much better and the ultimate compromise is up to you.
Of note also is that the leblanc barrels are a bit shorter than the buffets ones and the selmer ones are longer again.
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Author: senexclarinetta
Date: 2023-11-02 17:42
Talk to me about spacers -- how do they make the barrel fit? (Where do they go?)
So at rehearsal last night I used a V12 in a 3 strength instead of the Legere and the altissimo was much better.
And then I noticed that my mouthpiece has a dent in the side rail. Le sigh. I have to see how much of a problem this will turn out to be.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2023-11-02 22:43
Definitely get the Fobes Eb extension if he can tell you which of his models might fit your LeBlanc. It tames the 12ths and seems to make the overall intonation better.
One fingering for altissimo E that worked for me was to overblow the G# one step above the staff. It's too sharp on my Buffets but worked on the LeBlanc. I do use it in a pinch on the Buffets especially if the flutes are a bit sharp.
I cut down the Bb reeds and that way you can use any barrel. I've ruined a couple reeds doing the cutting although a pair of garden snips seems to work best in my hands.
Eefer guy
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2023-11-03 06:05
Hi,
The top tenon length on the Leblanc is shorter than on the Buffet or Selmer. The barrels and bells I believe are really designed for Buffet or Selmers, no surprise there.
This results in an internal space between the top of the Leblanc tenon and the bottom of backun barrel. This increases the internal volume of the horn. IMO this results in a lowered pitch around the throat area. Proportionally less, very quickly to zero down the horn. I have ended up getting nylon washers on ebay and turning/sanding down the external diameter to get them to fit. the internal diameter on the ones I got was good. You can make them a gentle press fit or use a dot of silicone to hold them in place if you like. Backun should sell spacers a good money spinner for very little outlay.
Normally I "dry socket" my clarinets by removing this internal space, by either tenon caps or turning down the tenon. I believe this can have a fantastic effect. E.g. middle tenon top e becomes more stable and higher notes can move up in pitch. This leave a sliver of space externally at the tenon.
IMO the bell b/e becomes a bit more in tune and tone improves. Low Es on my horns as a result are almost bearable:)
I have only heard good reports about the extensions I do not own one but will try a friends in the near future.
The Backun bells are too long/low pitch for the Leblancs. I have turned down the tenon to a shorter length and "dry socketed" as above to get it to pitch. Same as above for the barell.
Feel free to ask if you want more details or thoughts about barrel lenghts.
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Author: senexclarinetta
Date: 2023-11-03 06:36
I....just want to say thanks and encourage you to keep talking! What an education!
Talk about barrel length and mouthpiece choice. 😊
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-11-03 20:10
I use both a B44 and a B40 mouthpiece on my noblet. I prefer the B44 a little more lately, it projects better. The B40 is a more quiet and blending sound, I think I would use it more in smaller groups or if I wanted to play more quiet intimate music. Both mouthpieces have nearly identical tuning to each other and I use a 42 mm barrel which I usually have pushed all the way in or possibly pulled out 0.5 mm on warm days.
I also have a Fobes San Francisco mouthpiece but I don't like it very much. Also, it tunes quite a bit sharper than the Vandoren mouthpieces do and has a very sharp clarion register. If I ever end up making a custom barrel for it, it will probably need 42.5 or 43 mm length and a different barrel bore taper to make it work better.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-11-04 02:03
of the off the shelf mpcs -the hite gives me the best preformance but my chas bay is the best i have ever played.
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