 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: rfoot
Date: 2010-01-25 21:29
I'm just canvasssing opinions here, so I'm not choosing my life on the basis of this forum, but your opinions would be useful.
I am currently in the Lower 6th form of my education, and am considering applying to a Music Conservatoire for a Degree course in studying the clarinet. I have passed my Grade 8 on my clarinet, but that was only just, but am taking my DipLCM later this year, either in April or the Summer. If I were to pass this exam with some ease, would this help my application? Also, does anyone know roughly how many people apply to British Conservatoires each year? Only the Royal Northern in Manchester says anything about how many students they take on for each instrument per year, which they said is roughly 4. I passed my Grade 8 saxophone with Merit last year, so would that help my application, as well as my passing of Grade 8 piano and studying for my ALCM in that? Also, on a more repertoire based note, am I the only person who finds playing with the piano in Weber's Grand Duo Concertante (1st Movement) difficult? As in getting the timings in right? Althoug, it doesn't help that my accompanist can't play the piece properly, although he does freely admit to that, and I can see that it is a difficult piece. The other 2 pieces that I will be performing are Widaszek's Capricious Miniature and Standford's Clarinet Sonata (1st movement). I will be performing the Widaszek and Weber at the Harrogate Music Festival in March.
I'm sure that some willl ask why I want to do clarinet instead of piano? This is one question that I have the answer to, and that is that I feel much more secure when performing on my clarinet than piano.
I hope that I'm not going on too long, and any useful answers to my questions would be helpful.
Post Edited (2010-01-25 21:32)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevensfo
Date: 2010-01-26 06:46
I'm not an expert but you seem remarkably well qualified for someone in the lower sixth. I imagine you'd have no problem getting in, provided your A-levels are okay.
--"I have passed my Grade 8 on my clarinet, but that was only just, " --
I take the view that a pass is a pass is a...etc. As well as having an off day or a grumpy examiner, someone may play the pieces really well and then make horrendous mistakes in the aural tests or sight reading.
I think you'd be better off asking these questions over on the ABRSM forum:
http://www.abrsm.org/forum/
Steve
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarionet
Date: 2010-01-26 08:22
I do know that most of the candidates were from the UK in the four London conservatory auditions this year and most seemed to have a Grade 8 in clarinet, many with distinction. Most of them got rejections. I know one Grade distinction candidate with rejections in all auditions. They don't really seem to care about any formal qualification you may have had in music, but do expect you to have certain A-level passes.
In the Guildhall auditions, where you get to do the second round with your fellow-candidates as a workshop, the Grade 8 seemed to be very variable. There were good players, and very ordinary players and 1 player that was really great. So you really have got to be much better than good.
What other instruments you play does not really count either, if you can't play well on your principle study one.
4 students is an approximate number, don't count on it, they may decide not to fill all of them. And it depends on the instrument. If you look at the composition of an orchestra, that will give an idea of the proportion of places available for any instrument, i.e. there will be a lot more places for violins and cellos. Of course lucky people, with an instrument of "need" like the viola or the double-bass, have a much higher chance!
From the data they give out there seem to be about 650-700 candidates for the 100 or so places in conservatories.
There were around 30 candidates in Trinity and slightly less number in Ram, Rcm and Guildhall for the clarinet, although someone who had auditioned in Birmingham told me there were 40 there!
The pieces you play really do not matter, it is how you play them that counts. Push.co.uk is great independent site that gives a lot of details on universities/courses in Britain, things that don't come up on the official pages, right down to how much a pint of beer costs in each university!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-01-26 15:48
I'm a yank, so know very little about your educational programs; but NO, you are not alone in having difficulty playing the von Weber with a pianist. AND, as you point out, a major hurdle to a good duo performance is a competent pianist.
Weber, Brahms, Schumann, ... were a amongst the great pianists of their time and wrote their clarinet/piano duos for themselves to play with their favorite clarinetists --the pulled no punches, and the piano parts require a substantial amount of work to bring under one's fingers.
For most of us, the lack of a great pianist limits our opportunities to play their lovely works --which are really duets --not accompanied clarinet pieces. In fact, I've heard the Brahms Sonatas referred to as Piano Sonatas with clarinet accompaniment.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nessie1
Date: 2010-01-26 16:34
In terms of your question about the DipLCM I am sure that the experience of taking the exam will help your prepare for your auditions and if you pass it with some ease it should give you confidence but I think that a conservatoire audition panel will not worry that much about the fact that it is on your application form - they will judge on what they hear at the audition. If you are playing at a music festival soon you should get some useful comments which you may want to bear in mind in your preparation. However, although you have done well to get grade 8 in the lower sixth, I have to agree with clarionet's hint that the majority of those who get into the major conservatoires will have good distinctions at grade 8 plus other experience (eg music festivals, county or national youth orchestras, getting some way in BBC Young Musician etc) but do what seems right to you and give it your best shot. It's not so common in the UK but, as people often suggest to those posting queries here about US college applications, may be you could contact a professor or two and see whether you could have a consultation lesson to get their thoughts on your likely prospects, advice for preparation etc.
However, if what you want is a degree in music why not apply to some university departments too? Your overall experience makes you sound to me like someone who might enjoy the mixture of more academic work, a chance to perform more informally on your other instruments etc. One place that has always been pretty strong on single reeds is Colchester (disclaimer my late, great teacher taught clarinet and sax there for many years but it is true that they have a good department going).
Good luck whatever you decide.
Vanessa.
PS if you want to create a good impression, do be careful how you spell/type Stanford!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2010-01-26 18:52
rfoot,
To be honest and frank, the competition for the big six is extreme. All the conservatoires in the country state that ABRSM Grade 8 distinction has to have been achieved or a letter from a respected musician stating that you are at that equivalent. When I was an undergrad there were five of us. One dropped out, one turned to conducting. One became a teacher and the other a house wife. Out of the my year I've continued to play through hard graft and dedication though I've had times when I thought it would be better to give up and do an office job or something. My posgrad at the RCM there were three of us on the orchestral course and one on the solo course.
All I can say to you is that you need to do what you want but that if your thinking of a performing career then you will need to first get the place and then work your arse off to try and stand up and be noticed. It is a tough game which is getting tougher by the month it seems.
Feel free to contact me off line if you like
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rfoot
Date: 2010-01-26 21:26
Thanks all for the advice/tips. On the Weber front, I have found a potential accompanist who is extremely good. I have also considered applying for normal University Music courses as well, just in case. Apart from Colchester, which other unis have good Music departments? In the future, I hope to either do orchestral performance work, or go into studio work. Will the courses help with the studio aspect of music?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2010-01-26 21:52
rfoot,
Sorry to be blunt again but as I said previously getting into the orchestral scene is extremely difficult. It's about who you know not what you know. Getting onto the session/studio scene as a player is even harder. I do session work but only because I was lucky and happen to be playing on a gig that a session contractor was also playing on. He liked what he heard and made me his clarinettist. The courses won't help you in the playing aspects but if you want to do a more technology based music degree then it might as an engineer or producer.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarionet
Date: 2010-01-27 14:44
rfoot,
cigleris is giving some very sound real-world advice.
Let me clarify what I said. I think you need to be an exceptional player, and most Grade 8s with Distinction were not good enough, and some of them had a lot of experience playing in their local ensembles, bands, whatever. That is just the minimum requirement.
I used the pianist supplied by the conservatories and was playing the Schumann fantasy (cigleris, you know why!- compulsory piece for rcm)...and the person was sometimes very off (other candidates said the same), especially in the 2nd mvt. Still got an offer and a scholarship and this is because as cigleris says, audition panels were very experienced players, and it doesn't matter how bad or good your pianist plays, they are interested in your playing only.
Orchestra work is very very very competitive to get, and I would think you would need, at the very least, to have a performance degree from a good conservatory or be at that sort of level. Look at the number of clarinets in an orchestra, compared to lets say strings, you can then see for yourself the chances of getting "an orchestra job".
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rfoot
Date: 2010-01-29 21:49
Thanks for your advice. When I decided that I wanted to do Music, I knew that it would be extremely competitive. But it is what I want to do. I know that it won't be easy, and that it needs luck amongst other things. But am confident that I can do it. Reading some of the audition criteria for several Conservatoires, I have noted that it isn't just the pieces that you play that you are judged no, but to what extent the judges think that you can improve whilst at the Conservatoire. You aren't the first people to try and dissuade me from doing Music, my school's career advisor tried and failed. Both of my music teachers think that I am good enough, and I am confident that I have the will and determination to keep going and not give up.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarionet
Date: 2010-02-01 07:43
You are right about the fact that they are looking for potential rather than perfection, still think they like a certain level to start off with.
I was just going by what you said about having "just" passed Grade 8, to warn you about things really are: not saying you cannot do it! It seemed a lot of the people I talked to were confident because they had grade 8 distinction, and played in ensembles and bands, but then didn't get anywhere.
It is still a long time till the auditions in nov-dec - I assume you are looking at 2011 entry- so start now and good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2010-02-01 09:24
rfoot,
It's good that that you have the drive and determination to succeed. You will need it to help you through the difficult times. I wasn't trying to dissuade you in anyway but wanted to point out the realities as someone freelancing in London.
All the very best for your auditions
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
