 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: knotty
Date: 2009-12-22 02:24
Been working on my altissimo register and find with soft reeds, (2-2.5) if I half hole the upper joint first hole (f#) the high notes comes much easier. (reeds of 3.5+ no problem with the high notes)
Is half holing a unorthodox technique for high notes or is it accepted practice?
Thanks..knotty
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2009-12-22 02:32
It's accepted.
Another technique involving that hole also exists. You leave your first finger down and slide it off gradually while making the transition to the upper harmonic.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-22 03:29
The reason you don't have a problem with the stronger reeds and find using the half hole is better with your softer reeds is because when you half hole it adds resistance. With the soft reed the notes would more easily POP out so adding that resistance allows you to support the air without the pop. The stronger reeds already have more resistance so you can support your air.
And yes, it is true that some players use the half hole some or most of the time and what Katrina suggested is a good way when you're sluring up to that register. You can either "slide" your finger or you can "roll" it. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-12-22 10:34
I'll use the slur just as Katrina has suggested but in a delicate passage going up to the altissimo, a little half-hole seems to prevent the D from popping out. Must be the extra resistance that ESP mentioned.
A good little trick to have in your tool kit.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-12-22 11:20
I find the half hole works well for High Eb and E (and above though not so neccessary there) but is not effective for C# and D, but this varies also with instruments/mouthpiece and reeds
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-12-22 14:17
Knotty: How can half-holing not be accepted?!
Whatever works for you, whenever, should be used. If putting the mouthpiece with reed-up on the instrument and playing it like that makes a better sound and better legato, then by all means, do that!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-22 16:18
As well as half-holing, you can help the high E and F in certain circumstances by opening the throat G# and A keys while LH1 is off the chimney. This will add brightness and stability to these notes and will also sharpen them (especially when opening the throat A key).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: knotty
Date: 2009-12-22 17:45
Thanks for all your great inputs, being so new to relearning the clarinet after a 50 year layoff, I have so many things to learn.
Chris P, I'll try the throat G# & A keys today, thanks.
aero145: I certainly didn't mean to imply it was a improper technique or was arguing the technique. At my stage in the clarinet, aside from the basic clarinet method, anything else is new and exciting.
knotty
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-22 18:09
Half-holing is very useful, especially if you're trying to slur up to the altissimo from the clarion register. It also helps with unstable altissimo notes like E.
Another useful set of fingerings for altissimo slurring are those where you lift your thumb off the thumb hole instead of your index finger. They're hard to use in quick passages, but in slower ones they are hard to beat for quality of sound, responsiveness, and ease of cross-register slurring. I use them a lot. There are a bunch of these, which you can see on the WFG website:
http://www.wfg.woodwind.org/clarinet/cl_alt_3.html
Also, related to what Chris P said, sometimes you can use those G# and A keys *instead* of lifting your LH index finger. For example, a couple of fingerings I like a lot are:
![[E6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/e6.gif) RT G# x x x | o o o
- and -
![[F6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/f6.gif) RT A x x x C#/G# | o o o
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-12-22 18:48
Mrn, I learned that F fingering last year, and I like it.
Now, for a half holing story. If involves a clarinet player from a major symphony orchestra who is no longer with us, and it's probably best if I don't mention his name. He was an excellent clarinet player, but he sometimes had an explosive temper.
I had learned the half-holing technique from several teachers, and found it useful. Then, I went for my first lesson with this guy. I played something, and at one point, going up to a high note, I half-holed. He glared at me. "What did you just do?" he asked. Innocently I said I had half-holed. With his reaction, I knew that I was in for it. "Half-holing!" he roared. "When you play in a major symphony orchestra, you don't have time for silly little tricks like half-holing! That's what it is, a silly little trick!" I felt like I had committed a major crime, and I knew more was coming.
"You know," he went on, "there are college professors who sit in their offices all day. They don't play in major symphony orcestras! They think they're special with their Ph.Ds! They come up with silly little tricks like half-holing!"
What could I say? I kept my mouth shut, and never half-holed for him again.
Needless to say, I don't have fond memories of my lessons with him.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-12-22 19:56
I half hole all the time in symphony orchestras, chamber ensembles, solo rectials, concertos. That professor should have tried it.
I can't think of anywhere wer it is not useful. For example I would never do the 2nd solo from Beethoven's 4 Symphony 2nd movt without half holing the high D. These things are are best friend when it comes to achieving a true legato between registers.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-22 20:33
Learn as many different tricks as they always have a time and place.
I'm glad my teacher showed me a variety of useful tricks and I still use them now - once learnt you'll never forget them. There are a lot of teachers out there who don't even know half the things a player ought to, so maybe he should have taught them all a thing or several.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-22 21:39
Peter wrote:
<<For example I would never do the 2nd solo from Beethoven's 4 Symphony 2nd movt without half holing the high D.>>
Hmm...I hadn't thought of that, probably because I'm, by habit, a "slider" rather than a "roller" when it comes to half-holing. Sliding your finger back onto the hole to play a downward interval (like that one) is kind of tricky. If you roll your finger, though, it's not too bad--I assume you must use the rolling-variety of half-hole here.
The way I'd have played this little passage is with this open-thumb D fingering, which accomplishes the same goal (where you end up rolling your thumb instead of your index finger):
R (No thumb) x x x | x o x (Ab/Eb)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-12-22 21:59
mrn,
No, i'm not a roller or a slider as you put it. I half hole very minimally in this solo. To be honest I'm not sure what I do but whatever I do it works and sounds good. That to me is important.
Those "cheat" fingerings are good to know also. I use them if the need arises like in the solo that starts the whole of Prokofiev's Third Piano Concerto. It's at the end when it goes high with a diminuendo.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-22 22:32
cigleris wrote:
> To be honest I'm not sure what I
> do but whatever I do it works and sounds good. That to me is
> important.
Agreed...it's the only thing that matters, as far as I'm concerned.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-12-23 08:53
Quote:
"Half-holing!" he roared. "When you play in a major symphony orchestra, you don't have time for silly little tricks like half-holing! That's what it is, a silly little trick!" or Quote:
"Yamaha!" he roared. "When you play in a major symphony orchestra, you can't play a Yamaha! It's not a buffet!" orQuote:
"Synthetic reed!" he roared. "When you play in a major symphony orchestra, you don't have time for silly little tricks like a synthetic reed! That's what it is, a silly little trick!" and it goes on and on and on.....
Wrong attitude by that professor. I think he forgot somewhere along the line of his career that it's about the music that matters. Not how it's accomplished, but how it sounds. By all means, be open to suggestions and trying new techniques, cause it may help you play the music easier. But I ultimately agree with AERO145. If it works for you, do it.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2009-12-23 08:55)
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Author: salzo
Date: 2009-12-23 10:05
"Why do clarinetist believe everything except their ears?"
-Ben Armato
If nothing sounds "wrong" when using the half hole technique, then use it.
I studied with a well known clarinetist, who was very much a "there is a right way and a wrong way' clarinet instructor.
At one lesson I asked him about double tongueing. He started explaining it, saying you have to go "duh-guh" with the tongue, start slow, build up speed, etc. So I tried to do what he was saying. It started becoming apparent to me that there was no way in Hades I was going to be able to do what he was asking me to do.
I handed him my clarinet. He rolled his eyes, put it in his mouth and played the end of Beethoven 4- It sounded so good I laughed. His "duh-guh" technique sure worked for him.
Took my clarinet back, and I played Beethoven 4- was pretty good.
He said "THATS IT!"
"It is?"
"Sure. I always suspected you were double tonguing when you were working on the Spohr."
He then told me how good it sounded.
"But I am not doing what you are doing."
"What are you doing?"
"Well, I kinda put the tip of my tongue behind the lower lip and then I "
"YOU ARE ANCHOR TONGUING!"
"I am?"
"YOU CANT DO THAT! THAT IS BAD TECHNIQUE!"
So I wnt back to duhguduhhhing and sometimes inadvertently slipped back into what I was doing and he would say "thats it', and I would say no I anchor tongued. He told me to go home and practice it, and I did, and I couldnt duhguduh to save my life.
I gave up on the duguduhhing and whenever I had to do something involving rapid tonguing, I would do my really bad method. My teacher never said anything bad about it. He assumed I figured out how to "double tongue" (or maybe I lied, I cant remember).
It finally occurred to me that I am playing for one of the greatest clarinetist, and he never said anything bad about what I sounded like, often said it sounded good. He only said it was bad when I told him what I was doing. But when it was only the ears that were the test, it was fine.
Point is, the ears are all that matters. I do not "correct" my students, unless something "sounds" wrong. Everyone has different physical make ups, what works for me, might not work for someone else.
If it sounds good, do it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-23 12:00
On altos, basset horns and basses there's a perforated fingerplate for LH1 (like a larger version of the LH1 fingerplate found on oboes) that's uncovered by rolling LH1 down for some notes of the altissimo register instead of lifting LH1 off the fingerplate and fully opening the tonehole.
The perforation on these fingerplates is only around 2mm which is tiny in comparison to completely uncovering the tonehole on a soprano clarinet, so half-holing on a soprano clarinet is logical considering this is done on larger clarinets.
A plateau mechanism can always be fitted to LH1 on a Bb/A clarinet with a perforation through it (probably around 1mm) if you want, but you can still get the same results by partially uncovering the LH1 tonehole by half-holing - and you can vary the amount you uncover, whereas with a perforated fingerplate you only have the open tonehole or the smaller diameter of the perforation and nothing in between.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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