 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-11-20 15:18
Getting pretty close to the time of year to Humidify our instruments (if of course you live in a climate that has Winter...)
Personally I use the heat going on consistantly as a cue to tell my students to get their Humistat's ready, and I start using my Room Humidifier.
At what point do you all start using humidity devices? I used to wait till 2 or 3 Clarinets cracked to know that it was dry, but not anymore.
(kidding)
Too early and it's not dry enough so your springs could rust, and too late of course can be quite a problem. I've got about 6 digital humidity gauges in my studio to keep a close watch on what's going on moisture wise.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: salzo
Date: 2009-11-20 15:34
David-
Since you use gauges, at what point do you get concerned that help is necessary to prevent your clarinet from cracking, and reeds warping?
My repair guy says humidity should be 50%- I have a newer clarinet, and even during the past months I have been using a humidifier when my guage is reading below 50.
And what about reeds? In the past, I never concerned myself with humidity, and never had a problem until last winter, when 8 reeds I worked on warped because of a humidity drop. I used to just let my reeds dry out on my desk, never had a problem. But because of last winter, I have been very mindful of preventing them from warping, and I think I have been over doing it. I like to really dry my reeds out-to the point that the tips get wavy. I know many disagree, but it is the way I have always done it, and have always liked my reeds. But since the warp fiasco, I have been keeping my reeds at least 58% humidity, and that sees high to me-havent had a wavy tip in a very long time, and the reeds these days seem "water logged".
So I guess i am wondering how low I can get before I have to worry about the reeds warping- I would really like to get lower than 58%, but I do not know how much lower I can go before warpage becomes an issue.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-11-20 15:52
Hi Sal!
I use the Rico Vitalizer (either Reed Vault or the reed case) with a ziplock plastic bag around the reed case to really keep it airtight and they work really well. I prefer the 73% level for the reeds and it keeps them at that level constantly.
I wait until the room is around 45% on a consistant basis to start the humidification and one machine is barely enough. I've got about 12 Wooden Clarinets to humidify.
So far I've been lucky
One thing for sure if you have a Humidity Machine is to clean it regularly!!!!! Once a month at least you have to really take it apart and give it a good cleaning for health's sake.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-11-20 17:37
I have a humidifier on my furnace so when the heat goes on the humidity circulates through the house. Then I keep a heater in my room to keep my studio from getting to cold at night because we keep the house down to 60% then so I keep a metal dish with water in it on top of the heater to get some humidity in the room. I used to use a room humidifier but it was almost impossible to keep regulated to not get too humid. As far as my reeds, I keep them in a vitalizer too and never take it out of a small freezer bag. I choose the reed I want to use and put them back in the bag and always keep it sealed, always. That way the vitalizers have lasted me over a year each. I have two bags with reeds and vitalizers for clarinet and one for bass clarinet reeds. You can check my website and read to page on reeds to get some hints on preventing warping and breaking in your reeds. I haven't had a reed warp in well over twenty five years by doing what I do. Before the vitalizers came on the scene I kept the reeds in my clarinet case with dampits which I still use for my clarinets to prevent them for drying out. I usually begin doing that when the temperature stays under 60 degrees on a regular basis or just feels dry. It's always a crap shoot to determine just when to begin using them. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: salzo
Date: 2009-11-20 18:22
David-
Thank You very much for your suggestions.
Ed-
I read your page dealing with reeds, it seems you are more in the "dryer is better" camp-which for me has always been the way i have dealt with reeds until recently (and it is the way i want to deal with reeds again).
You mentioned the rico vitalizer in your article.
i was thinking of getting those 58% humidity packs, and give them a try.
I am wondering if those packs provide humidity, absorb humidity, or do both.
lets say I soaked a reed in water, and then placed it in a holder, in a bag, with a Vitalizer pack. Is the pack going to absorb the excessive moisture, to bring the humidity down to 58%, or will the humidity remain high, due to the soaked reed, and because the pack does not provide absorption , but instead provides moisture?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-11-20 18:27
They absorb as well as give out moisture.
Unique
So if you put a soaking wet reed into the pack, you'll be making it work harder and possibly not last as long. But it will bring it down to the % on the pack.
Ed, your tip about only wetting the top 1/2 of the reed is very good. I have my students do that now, and it does make a difference.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-11-20 22:42
Good for you Salzo, David's correct, the vitalizer more or less equalizes the humidity in the bag so it's not wise to "soak" the reed first but you shouldn't dry it out either, just wipe off the excess moister. I don't think reeds should "dry out" as in drier is better but rather as stable as possible. The less they change the less stress on the reed but I don't think keeping them "wet" is any good either, just not "dry". Good luck, ESP
Just to qualify what I said I do that once I've broken my reeds in and have chosen the ones to use professionally. While I break them in I do leave them upside down to "dry" out but in a stable environment, that is not too dry a room. I do this so that as the pores open and close with each days playing and adjusting they settle in to where they will be stable, it's then that I keep them in my freezer bag with a Vitalizer. The exceptions are my practice reeds, I just leave them out, who cares anyway about those?
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-11-21 01:33)
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2009-11-21 01:06
(Disclaimer - I sell humidity control supplies and guages)
IMO you need a guage any time you mess around with adding, subtracting or moderating RH - how do you know what the ending RH is?
David, the Rico blurb stretches "science" past the breaking point on several points - e.g. saturated salt solutions have been used to moderate RH by museums for more than 100 years, dual humidity control is not a Rico patent, oxygen scavenger and mold control are not attributes of the product at RH > 50%, etc., etc.
I like the Rico product but also, FME, find it grossly expensive per volume/unit time consideration. But of course I make my own for pennies from readily availble hygroscopic chemicals but the Rico product is also much more user friendly.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-11-21 01:26
Yup, I've tested them with a digital gauge that the company that makes the vitalizer pack sells.
Rico claims ( if I recall) that they are the first to have a 2 way humidity device which is true - right?
The science is old, but that application mass produced for clarinetists is new.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2009-11-21 02:06
All saturated salt solutions or gels are 2 way (not a Rico invention) - they give up moisture if surrounding RH is below their tipping (crystallation) point and take up moisture if above. As mentioned, museums have been using semi-sealed boxes of saturated salt solutions in display cases for many years.
Saturated salt solutions are more efficient at taking up moisture than giving it up - the cycling also decreases efficiency and after a while the reaction is "poisioned" and the chemicals must be replaced.
Granted - the Rico pouches are a consumer friendly product and with a high profit margin for Rico.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
Post Edited (2009-11-21 02:12)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-11-21 17:13
Breifly delving into the US patents shown in David's referenced article, it seems to me to be a very complex pat situation, with a number of titles specifying musical insts being hum-controlled. An earlier pat in the group of some 8 - 10 is 5,936,178, so if anyone is so motivated to "study" all of this art, my best reading wishes. My curiouity will prob. cause me to go further. Much Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2009-11-21 23:26
(Same disclaimer)
There is a big difference between keeping your reeds moisturized or dry and keeping your clarinet or clarinet herd properly humidified (45%-60%).
The Rico Vitalizers do not have enough mass to adequately maintain the proper humidity in cases that are constantly opened and closed - ( you could I guess but it would cost a fortune). The best advice would be to humidify or dehumidify a room or closet where your clarinet spends most of its time. You cannot keep the RH perfect all of time - e.g. dry stages, cold orchestra pits, etc. but the instrument will equilibrate slowly so the major environment is the most important.
Warming an instrument slowly is also a good practice.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Rusty
Date: 2009-11-22 18:17
I pack my new wooden clarenet away in its case after use and have a little tube with a wet cotten bud in there too, but have no idea what the humidity would be in the case.
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2009-11-22 18:58
What with all your concerns about temperature and humidity, it seems to me that North America is basically unfit for human habitation!
Back in Europe we don't have any of those concerns . About 70%RH for most of the year and temperatures that don't go much below zero (Celsius) or need air conditioning....
Chris
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-11-22 20:14
Your comments about quite-high humidity levels interested me, Chris C, are you close to the Eng. Channel, are they higher than in past years. ? Ours in the usually quite-dry Fall season [mid Amer.] seem much higher, negating need for clarinet etc humidification, possibly Dehum. is needed! Being interested in weather, but only as an observer, I wonder if this is one of the "observable" results of Climate Change [Global Warming still is not recognised by many], and, IMHO, also shows up now by higher-than-before nite time minimum temps. If GBK allows this departure from subject, what are Eureoean "views" on this subject?? TKS, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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