 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2009-08-18 14:44
It's been maybe a couple of years since Buffet forced retailers to sell their instruments at such outlandish prices. I wonder if at least their new clarinet business has fallen off any...I hope so. Does anyone know?
Their new E-11 seems to be an attempt to get some new business at a lower selling price...the quality so far undefined. Their advertising doesn't seem as pervasive and aggresive as it has been in the past, maybe they're feeing a pinch.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-08-18 14:53
A large number of people equate R13 with professional clarinet and never even look at other brands, which is foolish; Buffet makes very fine clarinets, but they are not the only source for pro-grade instruments.
Jeff
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-08-18 17:45
Look at the price of Selmers if you want to see outlandish prices.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2009-08-18 18:14
OG,
I've been a Buffet dealer since 1960, the new clarinet business has dropped off considerably. Some of this is of course from the new pricing structure issued by Buffet but some of it will be from a slow economy.
The used Buffet market has boomed on the other hand, with new prices being so high it allows any used Buffet to gain some strength and it has soared. I have never had so many used Buffets in here for repair, that market is pretty healthy at the moment.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-08-18 18:43
Priced a top quality flute or oboe lately? How about a bassoon? Bocals go for as much as new clarinets. And don't even think about violins. A decent bow costs 10 times more than the most expensive clarinet. We've been spoiled.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Jadacks
Date: 2009-08-18 18:53
I feel clarinet prices are pretty reasonable at the moment, while there's some super elite models out there for silly prices no one really needs them. I just picked up a Yamaha 650 for £600 new. Once I had a few changed done to it I struggle to see how a Selmer St Louis which a friend has is any better.
As said above we are doing pretty well, it must be pretty disheartening as even a beginner looking at the Oboe prices.
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2009-08-18 22:41
@ Paul,
As far as selmer LIST price goes, isn't that different from buffet? they don't have a minimum sale price like buffet does, just an advertising price. At least it seems. I managed to get my selmer 67 bass for a significant amount less than the advertised price that the store used. and it wasn't a used instrument, brand new.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2009-08-18 23:52
Who cares what other instruments cost? We've had this argument before. Economics - if the demand for clarinets is down and Buffet is turning losses, reason dictates that they should either lower prices or lower the cost of making the instruments. Hopefully they won't consider the latter since that can often (but not always) affect the quality.
Buffet is a company - a business designed to produce fine instruments and make money. Ultimately the latter is more important because without the latter you cannot make the former.
Thankfully, the demand for oboes does not govern the price of a new clarinet. We're lucky to have so many brands that make decent clarinets - increased competition usually is a good thing for us consumers!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-19 01:02
Ken Shaw if so right. Who ever complains about the price of a clarinet, even the top of the line, needs only to buy the top of the line flute, oboe or bassoon not to mention string instruments. When we talk about the top professional models clarinets, saxophones and trumpets are a bargain at best. I own two Bb, an A an Eb and a bass clarinet, all top of the line, together they would not cost as much as one top of the line bassoon. My god, some of my friends in the BSO paid more for their string bow then I paid for all my instruments together, at todays prices. Stop complaining and consider yourselves lucky that you choose one of the least expensive instruments available. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: justme
Date: 2009-08-19 02:03
Ed Palanker said:" Ken Shaw if so right. Who ever complains about the price of a clarinet, even the top of the line, needs only to buy the top of the line flute, oboe or bassoon not to mention string instruments."
Just think of a top of the line instrument for piano, it can be as much as $120,000!
Justme
http://woodwindforum.ning.com/
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2009-08-19 03:22
Seriously, 30k for bassoons? What? I think I'd like the Cadillac, please.
And that's not even the contrabassoon...
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-20 15:07
Yes, most pro bassoon players have Heckels and they order them and have to wait several years to get it. If they don't like it, tough, they have to buy it anyway. Then they try to sell it. Many are now using Fox bassoons but their not cheap either. ESP
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Author: Drake
Date: 2009-08-23 02:11
I paid $200.00 for my S.M.L, in used condition. I am not sure how much an S.M.L is worth in comparison to a Buffet, but when I play my S.M.L, I feel like I should have paid a lot more for it. Actually, now that I think about it, I did pay a lot more for it. In the end, I ended up paying nearly $400.00. I know this is nothing to other instruments, even other clarinets, which can go for thousands of dollars.
By the way, a 14 karat rose gold flute? Seriously? I mean, is that really necessary?
Post Edited (2009-08-25 23:38)
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Author: Pilot
Date: 2009-08-23 02:58
Pro clarinets are considered cheap when put up against other instruments. There was a flute major at my school who played on a 14 karat rose gold Brannen Cooper, it was almost $32,000. Even my set of R13s were cheaper than our oboist's Loree.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-23 13:48
There's not another professional woodwind instrument that one can go someplace and try out dozens of instruments and have a choice of so many different makes and models and walk away with the top of the line for less than 5K and often a whole lot less than that. I bought a new Selmer Signature three years ago for 3K. For a top of the line clarinet used in a professional orchestra by a professional, that's down right inexpensive. Relatively speaking, clarinets are cheap. We are the lucky ones. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2009-08-23 16:42
The point is that Buffet is forcing big retailers to charge the "list price" for their clarinets. In many cases this is hundreds even more than $1,000 that they would charge and have charged in the recent past. Such a business practice is against the law in this country but Buffet is getting away with it.
The price of other instruments is irrelevant.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2009-08-23 18:06
"The price of other instruments is irrelevant."
That is exactly the point. The fact that a Heckel cost 40K is irrelevant. Ed, you made my point without even asking for it. They order Heckels, wait years for them because that's the only "acceptable" (in a matter of speaking) bassoon. Frankly, it is probably the best out there or I'm sure there would be more brands.
Clarinets on the other hand have Buffet, Yamaha, and LeBlanc as three major manufacturers that make top-of-the-line clarinets. There are professionals out there who play on any/all of these three makes. A little competition to drive the prices down. Sound familiar of late doesn't it?
We don't have to pay bazillions for precious and semi-precious metallic instruments (see flutes). We don't have one company who has monopolized the industry (some would argue Buffet has but that argument can wait for another day) and there is a huge, gigantic second-hand market out there where you can find superb, used clarinets for a great price. All of these seem to keep the cost of clarinets down.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-08-23 18:21
A market consists of two parties - suppliers and buyers. As long as the buyers are willing to pay any given price, why should the supplier lower their price? As long as any given player will repeat the mantra "you need an R13 if you want to succeed", demand stays high and so will the prices...
--
Ben
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-23 19:21
Old Geezer, I didn't understand the point you were trying to make. I thought you were complaining about how much it costs in general to buy a clarinet. I believe you can still buy a Buffet well below the list price though. ESP
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-08-23 19:42
Could the rise in prices also correspond to difficulties in obtaining decent wood stock? Nobody has brought that up yet, so I thought I would stir the pot!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2009-08-24 11:36)
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-08-24 04:21
Here's what I don't get, and perhaps one of you can explain it.
If you go to Buffet's web site, they show the E-13, the Limite, and the Conservatoire. If I understand correctly, these clarinets are "between" the E-11 and the R-13. Many years ago, I helped a friend pick out a new instrument; he wanted a nice clarinet, but didn't want to pay the price of a R-13. I helped him select an E-13, and it turned out to be a great clarinet.
For some reason, Buffet doesn't market the E-13 in the U.S. anymore. I met a Buffet representative about a year ago, and I asked him about this. He was very polite, but I really didn't get an answer.
Neither Buffet nor Selmer seem to be interested in this "in between" market. Yamaha (450 and 650) and LeBlanc (Bliss, Sonata, Cadenza) are.
I've never done a comparison test of the E-11 and these Yamaha and Leblanc models, but after reading this board, I get the strong impression that the E-11 is inferior to these other instruments.
Does anyone know why Buffet doesn't market these other models in the US?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-08-24 11:39
I have played the E11 and the Cadenza. The Cadenza is far better, at least based on the examples I have played.
Jeff
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-24 13:01
Does the value of the US dollar have anything to do with the raise in prices? It wasn't that long ago that the dollar was worth more than the Euro. Has the prices in Europe gone up as much as in the USA? ESP
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2009-08-24 15:19
The main price jump on Buffet's happened about three years ago. They set "price floors" in order to make sure their instruments were sold in more places in this country. The reason they felt this was necessary was because large mail order retailers were undercutting what smaller, local shops could charge for Buffets. As a result, Buffets just weren't carried by as many smaller retailers as they saw fit. They set price floors to combat this, and as far as I can tell it's been a good move that hasn't impacted their sales negatively. I don't know if they've been successful in getting smaller places to carry Buffets, but I would imagine that will take some time.
Since that main price jump three years ago, the prices have continued to rise, but not a huge amount. The price floors three years ago were the main thing. Like it or not, it was a business decision, and it's hard to complain too much when clarinets are still relatively inexpensive.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-08-24 15:53
I went to talk with my old friend, Vito, who used to be a member of the Buffet Mafia. Unfortunately, word got out that he had "squealed" to the folks at Leblanc, so he is fertilizing M'pingo trees in Mozambique, nowadays, or so they alluded.
Since then, he has been replaced by Guido. I asked Guido about the pricing, and his reply follows:
"We charge what we wants. Youse gotta problem wit' dat???" ![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif)
Jeff
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Author: tholland
Date: 2009-08-25 16:53
Glad to see another Selmer fan. Ed, how does the signature compare in sound quality to the 10S of the '80's? I am considering a new clarinet purchase but I am fearful of changing my ways, and have never liked the feel of the Buffet setup...thoughts?
Tammy Holland
Returning Lost Clarinetist
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