 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-01-22 09:32
I was recently talking to my teacher about solos and I mentioned I really liked the Debussy rhapsody and she said I should avoid it until I was like a music major. Now I understand it being a difficult piece, but what makes it so hard to warrant such a response. (I don't want to make it seem like I'm offended by this comment, I understand I'm not ready to play it. I'm just curious)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-22 14:40
I would not prohibit someone from looking at the music nor trying it out. You are clearly being motivated by what you hear and that is a really good thing.
As usual, the harder bits of anything are the coordination of fingers in fast moving passages, difficult key signatures and complex rhythmic relationships.
I was just speaking of S-L-O-W practice in a recent posting and I would be inclined to suggest that you take some of the quick bits of this piece and just start looking at them very very slowly.
If you can impress upon your teacher how inspired you are by this work and present your willingness to work on 'bits' of this to lay foundation for the future I think she/he may be more than willing to 'work with you' on this.
In defense of you teacher's position, many instructors want to students to proceed methodically from one technique to another, building upward from a firm foundation. I might suggest RHYTHM is a key element holding a lot of students back. Rather than thinking of rhythm as 'beat to beat' (tapping your foot), think of a steady LENGTH OF TIME one after another (ie quarter note moment in time equalling one full second, for example, ....or 1.00, then each pulse in a measure is 1.00 second long, over and over again rather than bad rhythm which would be 1.01 then .98, then 1.08, then 1.02 - get it?). But it's NOT complicated!!! In fact, if you can remember how long the quarter note you just played is, then you should be able to play the quarter note you are presently playing just as long (from memory, NOT thinking taps). This is good rhythm
Sorry for just picking something out of the air.
.............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-01-22 19:31
Hard pieces in general have, to name a few:
* Difficult Fingerings
* Fast Fingerings and/or Articulation.
* Complex Rhythms that sometimes don’t match perfectly with a Metronome Beat (Premiere Rhapsody being a perfect example) in part because of:
* Different Interpretations.
In addition there's:
* Complex and sometimes frequently changing time signatures.
* Hard Key Signatures and/or an abundance of accidentals ([double] sharps, flats, neutrals) that have to be remembered or that change intra-measure.
* Phrasing that lends to intonation problems, where notes, known to usually be off key on a clarinet become a challenge for the player to keep in pitch, especially relative to one another, and especially in light of volume requirements.
* Varying degrees of loudness, including such changes mid-play, where the sound can’t thin or change pitch on double fortes, any more than it can on triple pianissimos.
* Challenges matching another player, and they you.
* Phrasing that requires much breath, with little opportunity to take it, and that are:
* Exhausting because of this and/or their length, or the length of the piece, and that can wear down your air, embouchure, and fingers.
Still more there's:
* Phrases that span multiple octaves, legato or staccato.
* Difficult notes, whether they be in the upper altissimo or in the throat tones, especially where trills are involved. These notes can be hard to voice (e.g. upper altissimo), sustain, finger, and/or play in tune.
===============
Now, let’s examine this specific to Premiere Rhapsody
Difficult Fingerings:
* Fast passages, slow passages where large gaps in notes required the fingers to all come up or down in precision, decisions to use resonating fingers for throat tones, including considering [sometimes] playing the throat Bb as a throat A with the 2nd from top right hand upper joint trill key--and the costs/benefits associated with that.
* Places where you have to slide the right pinky, or switch pinkies mid note, or know which pinky must play a note to position for upcoming notes where the right or left pinky is mandated…fast phrasing above, below, and including the throat tones, hard trills involving accidentals, and keeping lower fingers in a hand on notes, while higher fingers in that hand play the trill…choices to use chromatic fingerings or not…decisions to keep fingers down in places to facilitate playing across the break play.
Rhythm and Interpretation
I defy anyone to be able to put a metronome to a professional recording of this piece. Interpretations find subtle speed changes and time allocated to certain notes different than written.
Abundance of Accidentals
* 2-3 measures before the last change to 2/4 time…nuf said.
* Key signatures involving anywhere from 2 – 5 sharps or flats.
* Double pianissimos to double fortes, and other volume modulation, often during play.
Challenges matching another player, and they you.
* Play this with a pianist who knows the piece.
I can guarantee you my lists are not exhaustive.
==========
As for playing this is concerned, If you do, I would suggest you first listen to several artists play this. Next, never take a passage faster than you can reliably play it with fingers at attention, but not rigid.
* If you are playing with music, consider use of iphone apps like iLift (no affiliation) that can change pitch and tempo, individually or both at the same time, even in different amounts or direction.
* Make sure you note where certain pinkies must be used, or pinky swaps/slides or necessary (e.g. 3 after marker 2, and at marker 5).
* Work with a metronome particularly on fast pasages, where you increase tempo one click at a time, only after you can play a passage "cold" at a certain speed Be prepared to accept that today you may get a passage correct at 60 beats per minute, and tomorrow you’ll have to start at 40 just to get it right. Note where chromatic fingers work. Note what fingers work best for you for the upper altissimo notes before marker 10. On Db to Eb clarion trills, only move the right pinky.
* Listen to where the masters grab air. Note this with breath marks.
Obey all markers for loudness. Practice the throat tone trills 3 before marker 3. Work on lifting only your middle finger for the Eb to F clarion trill.
================
Finally, reasons why your teacher might not want you to attempt this piece:
* Time is your most precious asset, and she recognizes it best be spent BUILDING the fundamentals that allow you to attempt this piece, rather than spending that time actually taking it on, in leiu or compromise of such fundamentals.
* Much of it you might not be able to play and she may not want you to be discouraged, develop bad habits trying to do things, or be psyched out by phrases you're not ready to take on.
Post Edited (2015-01-22 19:32)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2015-01-22 20:38
Some of the easiest pieces are also the hardest. The Mozart concerto presents few technical difficulties, but playing it perfectly, and simultaneously tastefully, without it being boring . . . . not so easy.
Among pianists, some of the greatest artists sweat over the little Traumerei movement of Schumann's Kinderscenen. The notes are slow and simple, but it requires several kinds of flexibility, and a tiny amount of the wrong over- or under-emphasis can spoil the whole magical thing.
So a definition of difficulty might be, the amount of effort needed to get something ready to play well. In the Debussy Rhapsody, that might entail effort to learn what "well" is for that piece. For my ears, that piece seems pretty picky as to interpretation, i.e., there's a narrow range of intepretive options that make it work and keep it interesting. It's easy to make it instantly forgettable.
(As opposed to, say, almost any composition by Beethoven, whose music generally seems amenable to almost any treatment - fast, slow, smooth, punctuated, straight, twisted, even a little sloppy - while still sounding great.)
The teacher may have been thinking of the student taking time to gain deeper appreciation of music, including Impressionism in general and Debussy in particular.
However, that's no reason to not practice the music. In my mind, if the assigned lessons get done, anything else the student wants to tackle is fine.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-01-22 21:08
Phillip...I'm with you on your impression of the Mozart if I can change so subtly your characterization of it "presenting few technical difficulties," to, at least as far as the first 2 movements are concerned IMHO, "presenting few obvious at first glance technical difficulties."
(I'm not exempting the 3rd movement in an effort to say it is easy, or the easiest of the 3. I think it far away the hardest, particularly if an articulate style is chosen.)
Perhaps where you said, "Some of the easiest pieces are also the hardest," I should have implied "seemingly easiest," which is my point.
In addition to the flawless, tasteful and interesting requirements you site, as you probably appreciate, the first movement in particular is full of places where fingers can so easily fall ever so off tempo, and phrases include challenging fingerings around the throat tones and the break. Not terribly difficult finger play is also challenged by the need to often repeat it several times in succession, identically.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2015-01-22 21:17
locke9342 wrote:
> ...Now I
> understand it being a difficult piece, but what makes it so
> hard to warrant such a response.
To answer Locke9342's specific question (leaving aside the more general topic title), the Debussy Rhapsody is difficult because
(a) it demands a highly refined physical technique (fingers, tonguing, etc.)
(b) it demands a great deal of rhythmic and metric flexibility - not a straight-ahead single meter with a single basic tempo
(c) it demands a great deal of subtle control of tone color and mood.
It's a piece that a very good high school player could learn to play technically. But there is so much in it that requires experience to play really convincingly. It is less accessible musically to most young players than Mozart, Weber, Mendelssohn, Brahms or Schubert.
Many teachers prefer not to spend time *teaching* pieces they don't think a student is musically ready for. They would rather spend time with equally valuable repertoire that better matches the student's level of musical development and can be learned to a greater level of refinement.
That your teacher would prefer not to spend lesson time teaching you the Debussy (if you actually asked her about studying it with her) in no way keeps you from practicing it on your own. Maybe you're more capable than your teacher credits you with being. Or maybe you'll get into it, quickly realize your current limits in learning to play it well, and just enjoy the experience of trying.
It's a beautiful piece that offers rich rewards if you can learn to play it well. But even if you can't right now, you may learn to appreciate what it offers more through close contact than by just listening to recordings of accomplished performers who make it sound deceptively easy.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-01-23 03:12
I just want to make things clear and say that I'm not actually wanting to play the rhapsody right now. We were just talking about solos in general and I mentioned it. I'm actually working on a easier solo at least when compared to the rhapsody.
I"d just like to make a quick comment on WPD. I must say you really post some very long and detailed responses and it's really impressive and helpful..
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: WeberBrahms
Date: 2015-01-23 03:57
It depends on the clarinetist, in my opinion, especially for amateurs like most of us.
We all have different strengths and weaknesses, so what makes a piece "hard" is individual.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
