 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: selmerplayer
Date: 2009-06-08 18:51
Well This is the third Selmer Paris pro clarinet I have bought from WWBW and I either keep getting rejects or Selmer has really gone down hill. I just got a brand new Selmer Paris Signature from WWBW and the damm thing has a crack in the bore of the lower joint. This is the second Signature I got from them that was cracked. The first one had 2 cracks in the upper joint. I bought a Recital before these and it had 2 horrible defects in the bore of the upper joint. as everyone knows, these are not cheap clarinets.
I mean JEEZE! I paid over $4000 for these clarinets. I just wonder if Selmer is making junk and WWBW and other retailers are getting hosed too. I called them and they are going to look into getting me a Signature that has NEVER been sent out and returned. That's the trouble. They are like Wal Mart. You buy somthing that someone else returned so you don't know what your're getting.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-06-08 20:33
This may be old news (circa 1977), but my new 10G developed surface cracks between posts of the lower joint and one around the "A" key in the top joint within weeks of purchase. I came to understand that these were not uncommon at all and for all purposes are fairly harmless. Keep in mind a CRACK is a structural flaw that opens up a tone hole, or a fissure from the surface all the way through to the bore.
I am not apologizing for Selmer, just relating what was going on with Selmers "a few years ago."
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-06-08 20:54
Seems to me you might want to look at other vendors. I recall recommending Kessler to you in a previous thread.
I don't mean to sound obnoxious, but some of your previous posts led me to believe that you were fairly inexperienced and were probably ordering instruments which you had no personal experience with, and you were going on someone else's recommendations. As several people have mentioned, it might be a good idea to make a trip to a location where they ahve a number of instruments to try out, and take someone along who is experienced and can give you honest feedback about the quality and sound of the instruments you are auditioning.
Is there a reason you are limiting the choice to Selmers? There are any number of excellent instruments from Buffet, Yamaha, Ridenour, Leblanc/Backun, and some of the smaller makers, who will all make a superb instrument for that price or less, and stand behind their work. Peter Eaton, Stephen Fox, Luis Rossi and others come to mind. For Buffets, shopping with Walter Grabner or Lisa's Clarinet Shop would be good choices. Kessler sells Selmers and Leblancs. Other choices might include Muncy Winds and Weiner Music. Lots of other places besides wwbw, which seems to have gone downhill in the past couple of years.
Jeff
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2009-06-08 21:08
Unfortunately I have the same unpleasant experience with Selmer Signature clarinets. I received 3 clarinets in totall from the dutch Selmer distributor.
- The first one wasn't a new clarinet, technically ok but used. I complained about it and would receive to new clarinets.
- The second one didn't seal properly and had many flaws in the wood.
- The third clarinet was not only cracked in the upper joint, but the crack was also repaired with glue.
Possibly I had just bad luck with the selmer clarinets... but for the amount of money you would expect more.
This was enough reason for me to continue looking for other brands.
At the end I opted for a Leblanc Opus II where I'm still very pleased with.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-06-08 22:20
Tell them to "shop check" it before mailing. (that's what wwbw calls it when they carefully check the instrument before mailing - done by their repair technicians)
That or stop slamming the clarinet against the floor when taking it apart 
That's some really bad luck you are having. I could almost see it if it were the dead of winter and you lived in North Dakota or something, but in the spring I'm really surprized to hear of all that cracking happening.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-06-08 23:19
Because we seems to have two persons here with similar problems with Selmers I just need to remind people of what I said earlier. A repair technician with respected dealer in UK told my teacher when the upper joint of his Buffet Tosca cracked so badly that it couldn't be repaired that in his 40+ years of service as a repair technician he had only seen about 5 Buffet clarinets that had a crack that couldn't be repaired but he had seen dozens(didn't have a count of it) of Selmers with really bad cracks.
Does this say anything about the quality of the wood that Selmer use ? Just when I look at close up photos of Selmers on Kessler's homepage I can see that the Leblanc they show on their homepage has closer and smoother grains like the Buffets that I've seen and that the wood seems to be less worked.
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Author: selmerplayer
Date: 2009-06-09 00:22
Iceland clarinet wrote:
> Because we seems to have two persons here with similar problems
> with Selmers I just need to remind people of what I said
> earlier. A repair technician with respected dealer in UK told
> my teacher when the upper joint of his Buffet Tosca cracked so
> badly that it couldn't be repaired that in his 40+ years of
> service as a repair technician he had only seen about 5 Buffet
> clarinets that had a crack that couldn't be repaired but he had
> seen dozens(didn't have a count of it) of Selmers with really
> bad cracks.
>
> Does this say anything about the quality of the wood that
> Selmer use ? Just when I look at close up photos of Selmers on
> Kessler's homepage I can see that the Leblanc they show on
> their homepage has closer and smoother grains like the Buffets
> that I've seen and that the wood seems to be less worked.
I think you are on to somthing because my Selmer 10S II which was made in the early 2000's, has grain that can't even be seen. Very close indeed and the wood is dense. The new Selmer's have wood that looks more like cheaper wood clarinets. Maybe they are having problems getting decent wood.
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Author: selmerplayer
Date: 2009-06-09 00:36
This may be old news (circa 1977), but my new 10G developed surface cracks between posts of the lower joint and one around the "A" key in the top joint within weeks of purchase. I came to understand that these were not uncommon at all and for all purposes are fairly harmless. Keep in mind a CRACK is a structural flaw that opens up a tone hole, or a fissure from the surface all the way through to the bore.
That's interesting. The crack does not go all the way through but it is very close to a tone hole. However the Signature has plastic tone hole inserts so I don't know how a crack would effect them. But the other issue with this clarinet is that is used. The bore on the upper and lower joint are very dry indicating that the clarinet has been played for quite a while. New never played clarinets from my experience are oiled and shiney, right? The keys have swirls indicating that they have been wiped with a rag. Cleary it was someones reject. Anyway I will give WWBW one more chance to give me a new never played clarinet and then I will go to Prowinds.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-06-09 02:29
Once again I can only speak from personnel experience. I've owned a Signature for three years and have a student with a set four years old, none of them ever had a crack. There's something going one here but I don't know what it is. Perhaps the way they're stored, packed or shipped. I'm going to refer this to a Selmer representative to read. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2009-06-09 22:15
Cracks in the lower joint are certainly alot more rare. I suspect the batch may not be so good. Also remember wild changes in humidity from spring to summer are just as bad as winter to spring. Just make sure you return the clarinet for a different one and have the vendor inspect the clarinet before the new one is sent. I don't think I have ever heard of this before and I have been teaching 30 years.
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Author: haberc
Date: 2009-06-10 00:17
I have a Selmer 9*, which puts it what, 50 years old, maybe more. The wood is in beautiful, perfect condition. Maybe it's true that the older clarinets have much better quality wood???
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-06-10 00:52
"Maybe it's true that the older clarinets have much better quality wood???"
Nope!!!!! I think from what I've seen and heard that the average quality of wood in Selmer's clarinets is worse than the quality of wood used for Buffets and Leblancs.
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Author: selmerplayer
Date: 2009-06-10 01:21
Well I just ordered a new Selmer Signature from Kessler music and the one from WWBW is going back. Should have done that to start with. I have bought 2 clarinets from Kessler before with no problems. The Selmer 10S II I bought from them is the best clarinet I have ever had. I'm sure this Signature from them will be a great clarinet.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-06-11 13:17
>> I think from what I've seen and heard that the average quality of wood in Selmer's clarinets is worse than the quality of wood used for Buffets and Leblancs.
>>
I don't know what's going on with Selmer right now, but my two Selmers, a B-flat Signet Special from the 1980s and a pro-quality 1979 Eb alto, are noticibly heavy and made from excellent wood. The grain on the alto is so tight that it could almost be mistaken for plastic. Neither of those clarinets have ever cracked and they're both excellent players.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: selmerplayer
Date: 2009-06-11 18:29
Lelia Loban wrote:
> >> I think from what I've seen and heard that the average
> quality of wood in Selmer's clarinets is worse than the quality
> of wood used for Buffets and Leblancs.
> >>
>
> I don't know what's going on with Selmer right now, but my two
> Selmers, a B-flat Signet Special from the 1980s and a
> pro-quality 1979 Eb alto, are noticibly heavy and made from
> excellent wood. The grain on the alto is so tight that it could
> almost be mistaken for plastic. Neither of those clarinets
> have ever cracked and they're both excellent players.
>
The same with my Selmer 10S II which was made probably in the early 2000's. Very tight grain. The Selmer Signature I have seen lately including the one I just purchased are all very grainy. I'm sure this doesn't effect the sound but is this wood inferior? I don't know. What has changed I wonder. Did Selmer adopt a cost reduction in their manufacturing or maybe the supply of good quality wood has been exhausted. Sure beats me.
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Author: xarkon
Date: 2009-06-17 19:08
I've been meaning to write a response to this but am just now getting to it.
selmerplayer wrote:
>>However the Signature has plastic tone hole inserts so I don't know how >>a crack would effect them.
I don't believe this is correct, at least not entirely. I've looked closely at the tone hole inserts in both my Bb and A Signatures, and they clearly show wood grain, even in the large tone holes in the bottom joint. (Just rechecked to make sure).
In speaking with a local repair tech, he mentioned that Selmer's strategy may have simply been to minimize scrap. I.e. if you are using a CNC machine to mill a joint as a one-piece unit, and the tone hole is destroyed, you have scrap. If you mill the joint as a unit into which you can insert tone hole risers, you may have more usable parts. Hard to say, as the work in threading and inserting all those bits complicates the process and involves more pieces.
I would like to know more about the design decisions that went into the Signature, including the tone hole inserts and the leather pads. In addition, another tech I know has said that every Signature he has worked on has played flat. I found that mine requires a standard mouthpiece. By that, I mean that, for example, the 13-series Vandorens will play very flat at A-440, but the regular version of the same mouthpiece will play exactly in tune. However, there doesn't appear to be much flexibility for raising the pitch, even with the shorter of the supplied barrels.
I bought my Bb Signature as a used instrument from eBay. It is relatively large-grained. I had it for about a year; it then developed an external stress crack which began in the trench for the register key spring. While the crack did not go through to the bore, the tech recommended inserting two pins to stabilize it. One of those is invisible and the other is nearly so, and the instrument plays just fine.
The A Signature I bought new (from Kessler, whom I recommend). I sent back the first instrument; it had two very small cracks emanating from posts on the upper joint. It's quite possible that someone else would not have noticed them; I just inspected the instrument quite closely, and have experience in doing that kind of visual inspection.
The second instrument, which I kept, has grain so tight that it might almost be mistaken for hard rubber. No crack problems. However, there were problems with the barrels; neither fit quite right, and were exchanged without difficulty.
Many techs to whom I have spoken suggest that the 'good' wood was gone 20-30 years ago. Nevertheless, I have a Selmer Centered Tone that clearly has a couple of knots in the lower joint. They are so dense as to be meaningless in terms of structural integrity - after all, the instrument is over 50 years old - but those pieces - knots and all - have been going into instruments for awhile.
I recently played a new R-13 at a local store with a few knots in both joints, too. And a friend just had the bell on his R-13 crack - rather dramatically - but it's an instrument from the mid-60's.
In the end, they're pieces of wood, and they will react to humidity, temperature, stresses applied during cutting, shipment, storage, manufacturing, and use. To make a determination about whether the quality is degrading, or whether more clarinets are cracking than ever before, would require a much more involved study.
Or maybe we (I) need to get over the obsession with wooden clarinets, and switch to synthetics...
Dave
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2009-06-19 01:59
I have a three year old Selmer Odyssey that cracked in the upper joint near a post. In 30 years of playing this is the first clarinet I have owned that has cracked.
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Author: Eddydavik
Date: 2009-06-20 01:49
Personal experience with WWBW... bought a brass mouthpiece from them a few years ago. The mouthpiece arrived with dents as there was no padding to accompany the padding.
Haven't purchased anything from them since.
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