 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-01-22 21:24
Got a 66mm barrel that came with my R-13 years ago. I notice that I am in tune (with the tuner at 440) when everything is pushed in all the way. Thing is, I checked my pitch before I was thoroughly warmed up. I assume I will go a little flat after I've been playing a while, but haven't tested this yet. Should I get a shorter barrel to make sure I can adjust properly as my horn changes temperature? 65mm? 64mm?
By the way, thanks to all of you who steered me to Brad Behm for my chipped mouthpiece repair. Came back fixed and playing like new again.
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2009-01-22 21:28
You should really be getting a LONGER barrel after you warm up (and getting a longer barrel is not even necessary)
Pitch rises as temperature rises; therefore, you would probably need to pull out very slightly after warming up.
I would recommend not to get another barrel, unless there's a real problem with the one you have now. Pulling out a little is normal, as long as you're not pulling out a lot.
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-01-22 21:37
Does pitch really rise as the temperature rises? I thought that the wood would expand, thus creating a lower pitch...and that when an instrument is cold, the wood is contracted, thus creating a higher pitch. Is there a scientist in the group?
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2009-01-22 21:40
I'm pretty sure it's the other way around.
just check with your tuner before warming up and after warming up. That'd be the most effective way to find out.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-01-22 21:57
The changes in clarinet dimensions with temperature are microscopic and have no significant effect on pitch.
The temperature effect is on the air inside the instrument, as this gets warmer the density and mass decreases (hence hot air rises) and a less dense air vibrates faster so raising the pitch. Think about violin strings, the highest ones are thinner and have less mass. so vibrate more quickly other things being equal.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-01-22 22:28
Well if you need to play at 442 then 665mm barrel is what you need for the R-13. But if you play the Festival as I do then 660mm barrel is enough since the register key is placed 2mm higher and that affect the tuning. When I was in summer 2007 in UK I had to pull out my 660mm barrel out by almost 3mm and then to balance the throat tones and tuning B and C and such I had to pull out the middle by 1mm and then to get the low E and F more in tune I had to pull out my bell by 0.5mm all to drop the pitch to 440.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-01-22 22:39
Technically, the wood would expand in both directions as the horn warms up. The bore will become slightly smaller, as th ewarm air causes the wood to move in that direction from the cventer of the wood as it expands, and the outside of the clarinet will also get marginally larger as the outer parts of the horn warm up. While th eair density also has much to do with the tuning, there is marginally less space inside the horn (where the air column is). When the inside of the instrument changes size/shape more quickly than the outside of the instrument, surface cracks on the clarinet can appear from, stresses in the wood.
And yes... there can be a significant rise in pitch as you warm up. Our band always starts out with a basic tuning, but then we play a number or two to bring the instruments up to temperature, and then retune. In that short time, everyone has gon at least a little sharp.
Jeff
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Author: William
Date: 2009-01-22 23:30
You really need a 67mm barrel (pushed all the way in) to play your R13 at A=440 when it is thoroughly warmed up--that is, after a few minutes of steady playing. You can also play in tune at 440 with your 66mm warmed up barrel simply by pulling the mouthpiece a couple of mm's. BTW, the gap left will not significantly affect the accoustical configuration of your clarinet, so no special tuning rings are necessary (IMHO) unless the gap produces a wooble when you play.
I always like to play with a 66 or 65mm barrel so that I have the flexability to play with ensembles that play around 442 or 443. I actually carry a 64mm barrel to use in extreme emergencies. Good luck........
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-01-22 23:48
I wonder, if you haven't checked yourself against a tuner while warmed up, why you are so worried? Check the tuning after a good 20 minutes of playing and then if you become sharp, pull out. That is always the first thing to do, not jumping to buy a new barrel.
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-01-23 01:33
Part of the reason I haven't played around with the tuning/warming up idea is that I just got a new tuner for my birthday and haven't had the chance to fiddle with it. I will check my tuning after playing for a while to see if it changes much, and which way it goes.
I've heard of folks wanting to change out their barrels after a while, thinking that time and use have a negative effect on this part of the instrument. When I actively played several years ago, I always needed to pull out a little to stay in tune, even when it was early on in the rehearsal, so something has changed about me or my instrument since then.
The player I sit next to in the ensemble in which I play skews flat at the beginning of practice. I feel that our pitches struggle against each other the whole time we're playing. I push in, pull out, etc., in an attempt to get rid of those annoying, fast sound vibrations, but to no avail. He's a more experienced player than I am, but really, he's also a little hard of hearing.
Perhaps it is not my instrument...
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Author: LesterV
Date: 2009-01-23 22:25
Jeff indicated that, since wood expands in both directions, the bore must get smaller with a temperature increase. This is not true. The wood actually expands in all directions - including in circumference. The increase in circumference results in the bore increasing in diameter as the wood warms up. However, as Norman pointed out, these dimensional changes are very small and have a far smaller effect on tuning than the bore's air temperature change during warm-up.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2009-01-24 18:23
Wood and other solids generally expand as they get warmer. So, a longer warm bore should make your pitch go down, but just the opposite is the case.
Wood actually expands much, much more with humidity than it does with temperature, and it expands at different rates parallel to and perpendicular to the annular rings. As humidity rises, a dry piece of branch will change little in length but its diameter will expand.
The wood expansion is important, but ambient air temperature in your bore is more important. Go outside when the temperature is 40F and check yourself against a tuner.
Pitch is determined by the mass of air vibrating in your bore. More mass, lower pitch. Colder air is much denser. Getting the wood warmed up helps keep the air in your bore at a constant temperature.
One 40F November day, I played an outdoor wedding in Flint, MI. Even with a 63mm barrel I could not get anywhere near up to pitch with the accordion, fiddle, and mandolin, who were perfectly in tune. I ended holding the music stands so they wouldn't blow away, a valuable function.
Which is why I was so surprised that Anthony McGill played so beautifully in tune at the inauguration, on a cold, cold day. Fooled me - they pre-recorded the music somewhere warm.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-01-24 19:27
Bluesparkle stated:
"I've heard of folks wanting to change out their barrels after a while, thinking that time and use have a negative effect on this part of the instrument. When I actively played several years ago, I always needed to pull out a little to stay in tune, even when it was early on in the rehearsal, so something has changed about me or my instrument since then."
One possible explanation:
The diameter(s) of the bore change over time. The bore assumes an ovoid shape and contracts. The magnitude of this is variable, and these usually occur over the first year that the barrel is in use. Typically the greatest dimensional contraction is situated nearest the bore outlet, nearer the upper joint. Following an initial correction, the bore becomes more stable and might not require further work.
Disclaimer...I make and sell custom barrels.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-01-24 19:47
This is all quite interesting. Today I played for quite a long time, and indeed I noticed that once my instrument was warm, I had to pull out. Guess I'm just full of hot air...
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