 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-12-22 07:56
I'm wondering if anyone have seen one of these tenons. The strange part is under the tenon cork. Instead of the usual grrove there are only two big "waves" the entire length of the tenon. There is nothing good about it and if anything it only makes gluing the cork normally less secure.
This isn't so strange except this was on a Buffet R13 clarinet from early 1990s. I've never seen this on any Buffet, and every one, earlier or later than this one had the usual (better) groove. Actually an identical model (only Bb) from the exact same year was normal.
I think this clarinit was originally bought new in Russia, so I'm wondering if maybe that has something to do with it (i.e. maybe they were made differently depending on where they were going to sell) though that doesn't make sense really.
Any ideas...?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-12-22 08:10
Most R13s I've seen have this 'wavy' tenon slot - and it's a pain as the cork has to be forced into the dips leaving the surface wavy until it's shaped, otherwise it'll only be glued onto the peaks if not enough pressure is applied.
The best tenon slots are completely flat and smooth as that provides a perfectly flat area for cork to adhere to when using impact adhesive.
Grooves in tenon slots aren't needed as shellac is no longer used to glue tenon corks on with. The grooves gave the shellac more surface area to adhere to the wood, but as impact adhesives (such as Evo-Stik) are only applied thin, the peaks lessen the surface area of the wood against the underside of the cork.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-12-22 08:31
Interesting, since R13 is the most common professional model here, and I think I replaced more tenon cork on this model than any other one model. I've never seen this "wavy" tenon groove before.
Not only the "two waves groove" a terrible idea, but it required especially thick cork, so I used a thin layer rubber cork, and glued natural cork over that (a method I learned from Gordon NZ). Using thick natural cork only is too soft and will compress too fast.
Chris, have you ever changed this "two waves groove" tenon? I didn't do that this time, but I thought of filling the spaces, possibly with super glue or epoxy glue mixed with wood dust. I'm wondering if the contact glue (I also use Evostik) will have any problem gluing to that mix (I'm pretty sure that's not a problem but would like to be sure before I try it). Although there are still the non-filled parts for the Evostik to glue to anyway.
Thanks.
Post Edited (2008-12-22 08:33)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-12-22 09:09
The best way to flatten out the wavy slot is to turn it down flat on a lathe, then stick a piece of rubberised cork in the slot to make it shallower for a standard thickness cork strip to be glued onto.
On all the clarinets I saw with this wavy tenon slot, the middle joint tenon was loose.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-12-22 09:12)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2008-12-22 19:04
I just take the two peaks down a fraction with a narrow file, this leaves a wide flat on the tops which provides a better gluing area and also reduces the remaining "depth" of the valley making it easier to get the cork to conform. I use a small smooth tool handle to firmly press the cork onto the surface after application to the groove. With good quality cork this works well (But good quality cork is becoming a rare item !!).
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-23 13:04
These waves have been common (but not universal) on recent Selmers too.
I agree that they are a thorough nuisance.
Post Edited (2008-12-23 13:05)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-23 13:12
"...Chris, have you ever changed this "two waves groove" tenon? I didn't do that this time, but I thought of filling the spaces, possibly with super glue or epoxy glue mixed with wood dust. ..."
Good idea. Or even just straight epoxy. I don't think I would not use superglue... just too messy.
One big nuisance with these waves is that it makes so much longer to get the thick strips of set contact glue out of the troughs. Contact glue makes a very poor filler.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-23 13:14
Chris, I am interested that you use Evostik, like Clarnibass & me. Where do you source it in USA? Most guys cannot find it there.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-12-23 14:28
I'm in the UK (not the USA as my ISP says) so Evo-Stik is available off the shelf.
Howarth also order it by the box load.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-12-23 14:36
I think next time I will use epoxy (with wood dust or not) to fill the waves. I can then use a lathe to flatten it but I think I'll use another method.
>> I just take the two peaks down a fraction with a narrow file,
>> this leaves a wide flat on the tops which provides a better
>> gluing area and also reduces the remaining "depth" of the
>> valley making it easier to get the cork to conform.
With the "waves" still there 1.6mm cork was boarderline. I wouldn't like to use 1.6mm cork even with the best support, since it is likely to compress too fast. If I file it I'll need even thicker cork. If such thick cork is needed I will glue rubber cork first and then natural cork over that. Although the lower parts of the waves are as low already, I wouldn't want to make this already thin area even thinner. This is why I will prefer to fill than to file.
Post Edited (2008-12-23 14:37)
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