 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: malanr
Date: 2008-11-03 15:49
I have a question about proper tonguing technique.
There are many different techniques for single strike tonguing. I have read about players putting the tongue directly to the tip of the reed, players striking the heart about a quarter inch from the tip, and my instructor taught me to strike the bottom lip instead of the reed itself.
I used the bottom lip technique in latter high school years with much success.
What I am wondering is where do most of the pros strike the reed?
Yes I have searched the archives, but I didn't see much other than breath support being the most important part of the technique.
Just another muscian
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-11-03 15:56
I think you will find that there is a pretty high degree of consensus that the tongue must touch the reed.
It may be misleading to use the word "strike". This may give the impression that the tongue "twangs" the reed to set it into motion. This is not the case. The reed is set in motion by the air. The purpose of the tongue is not to start the vibration, but to stop it. Tonguing is not so much a matter of putting your foot on the accelerator, as of taking your foot off the brake. The tongue does not "strike" the reed forcibly, the merest touch should suffice.
(edited once I realised I had accused you of saying something you did not say!)
Post Edited (2008-11-03 16:09)
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Author: malanr
Date: 2008-11-03 18:14
Right, I shouldn't use "strike". Mucho confuso.
Lets try and this..
Where do you place your tongue on the reed when stopping the vibration?
The Tip (directly on the end of the reed and mouthpiece)
Within the first 5 millimeters of the tip (under the reed)
Or farther back from the tip
Norbert - is that a bit clearer?
I guess i'm trying to find out where I should be contacting the reed. I haven't played for a few years, and the on thing that I always had problems with was tonguing. I want to start practicing correctly. I get a lala sound when i tongue to fast, not the popping sound that i should be getting.
Just another muscian
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-11-03 18:36
The phrase that is often quoted is tip-of-tongue to tip-of-reed.
That's then often qualified by saying that some players - those with longer tongues, maybe - actually don't quite use the tip of their tongue. And maybe they don't quite touch the tip of the reed either.
Then there will be a discussion of something called "anchor tonguing", where the end of the tongue remains stationary behind the lower teeth. Some teachers regard this as a most grievous sin.
I think the reality is:
- There is no one correct way of doing it, just as there is no one perfect mouthpiece or perfect reed that suits every player.
- There may be a mismatch between what you think you are doing, and what you are really doing.
If there is a magic formula for success, I'd like to know what it is, but I strongly suspect that you just have to find the way that works for you.
However, if your instructor told you to "strike the bottom lip instead of the reed itself", I think you will find a consensus here that he was either misguided, or he perceived that you have some anatomical peculiarity that means you are unable to tongue in the standard way. Or, to be more charitable, it may be that you were tonguing too high, behind the upper teeth, and he was trying to get you to over-correct.
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Author: malanr
Date: 2008-11-03 18:49
> - There may be a mismatch between what you think you are doing,
> and what you are really doing.
Isn't this always the case? LOL!
I used to anchor tongue, and was pretty good at it other than the sound being a little flubby? Kinda like wha wha.
I'm not sure if it was my instructor that told me to strike the lip, but it works. Just not as well as touching the reed. It takes a little more strength because of the lip being a cushion.
But Tip of the tongue - tip of the reed. I'm gonna work on that one.
thanks birdman!
Just another muscian
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2008-11-03 20:08
I find that I often end up tonguing slightly UNDER the tip of the tongue, which I haven't heard being taught anywhere. So my range of tongue that touches the reed is from very close to the tip on the top side (probably within a millimetre or two) to about the same on the underside. I know of some professionals who say that they tongue even further away from the tip on the top side, especially for loud staccatos. But I find that I never need to go so far away from the tip to get a forceful enough attack unless I'm slap-tonguing.
My advice would be to experiment with different types of staccato and use what works best for you in the context of the music that you are playing.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-11-04 01:24
Tonguing problems are not always black and white because people have different size tongues. Some teachers teach the same way to everyone, insisting that their way is the only correct way. Unfortunately that doesn’t work for a good number of people. So, you have to experiment. I advocate arching the tongue in back so it is near or touching the upper molars. Then bring the front of your tongue as close to the tip of the reed as you can and as close to the tip of your tongue as you can. As you can means it will be different for many people, it could be close to the tip or even a bit further back. If your tongue is on the longer side, as mine is, you will actually come up from under the reed and stroke the reed from below instead of at a straight angle as so many insist you do. Basically you have to experiment to find what works best for you. A really good teacher will not only encourage you to do this but will give you ideas on the angle and tongue position to achieve your maximum goal. It’s a shame that there are so many, including some very fine teachers, that insist all their students tongue the same way they do, mostly because it came natural to them and they have no concept of how else to tongue. The secret is to use a light stroke with as little movement as possible without blocking the air passage or choking in your throat. Experiment! ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
Listen to a little Mozart, live recording
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-11-04 22:26
Norbert described the action of tonguing as releasing rather than "striking" very well.
For a couple of years in high school, before I started private lessons, I also used to tongue my lip instead of the reed. Trust me, tonguing the reed will give you a much cleaner, crisper sound.
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