 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jexas
Date: 2008-10-19 14:31
Hi all
Well after 30 years since leaving school I had a sudden urge to return to my childhood and pick up a clarinet I had fond memorys of playing a somewhat ammature version of take 5!
Anyway I stumbled across a second hand B+H Edgware serial 299720 and parted with £50 for it. I dont realy know if it was a good deal or not?
So I got it home and put it together started blowing and was just pleased that I could get some notes out of it! Quite a nolstalgic buzz...
It wasnt until I tried playing the lower notes that I realised the pads needed replacing and on closer inspection noticed a small crack on the lower tennon joint which I dont think is a major problem as its above the cork line but would appreciate any advice on how to seal it and stop it cracking any further?
I ventured into Hitchin and bought a set of pads from Graham Devere I think thats his name. He reccomended I glue them with evostick? So Ive done that and it seems fine. So as newbie I would just like to ask a few questions
1> Can anyone date this instrument?
2> Can someone reccomend the best way to seal the small crack on the tennon joint?
3> Should I really have used evostick?
4> Is this B+H ebonite? plastic?
5> have I just wasted £50 ?
6> There are a few bite marks in the mouth piece which is a number 2?
can anyone reccomend a replacement.
I have also seen a good condition Besson 35" (£ 40)does anyone know if the parts for the Besson are compatible or interchangeable with this Edgware? I did read somewhere in this forum that the Besson was exactly the same as a B+H Regent?
Sorry for the long winded post I guess im still feeling enthusiastic about my new reborn hobby! Anyway thanks in advance
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-19 14:49
1. It's from the late '60s - probably somewhere between 1967-1969.
2. You can use superglue to repair cracks in the tenons.
3. Only use Evo-Stik for key corks and tenon corks, and use shellac for pads. Never stick pads in with Evo-Stik as you can't move them once the glue has gone off.
4. Wooden B&H clarinets have metal tipped tenons (although some 1010s don't) - the plastic ones don't have metal tipped tenons.
5. If it's in repairable condition, then no, you've done well. What else can you buy for £50 (apart from some Chinese piece of cack)?
6. Any new mouthpiece will be fine, if you want a good mid-priced one, get a Vandoren 5RV Lyre.
If the Besson is of a similar serial number (above 20000) then you can interchange parts with Regents and Edgwares.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2008-10-19 14:51
I know that dating by serial number is what you were looking for but, just for fun:
As far as dating the origins of the Edgware, I can tell you that I recently bought and framed a small Boosey & Hawkes magazine advertisement from 1950 that features Reginald Kell playing a clarinet and promoting the sound of the new (or relatively new, is my guess) Edgware model.
It quotes him as saying, "It plays like the top-price models."
The ad was in an American journal and listed the prices as $129.50 for grenadilla wood and $99.50 for ebonite. Case included.
Post Edited (2008-10-19 14:56)
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Author: Jexas
Date: 2008-10-19 16:59
Thats great thanks for the replies and useful info. I wish I hadnt already used the evo stick on the 4 pads I replaced Im shocked that a tech of 30yrs + experience advisd me to use the stuff!!
Can you reccomend what type or brand of shellac I should use in future and can I remove the evo-stick with anything or rather whats the best method for doing this?
I'll have to check out the Besson for the parts but im struggling to find out more about the model Besson London 35" I know B+H took them over and they have since joined the Buffet group but any google Ive done just brings up stuff about the brass instruments,is it that B+H actually made this model with their Besson branding?
Is there a basic repair manual out there for clarinets?
Im not about to start dismantling this one but it would good to know how to set the key heights without trying to bend them?
Thanks again
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-19 17:27
B&H used Evo-Stik to stick the pads in with (even on 1010s) - but this made any future pad adjustments near impossible. You can remove Evo-Stik from the insides of pad cups with heat from a gas torch or bunsen burner flame, and scraping the glue off with an old reed, though it probably won't be easy to remove from the back of the pad without damaging the pad (unless it's already been burnt while trying to remove it with a gas torch).
Shellac sticks (as well as pads and all manner of repair materials and tools) can be ordered from Windcraft https://www.windcraft.co.uk/, usually the amber one is used for brown leather and cork pads and white is used for skin or white leather pads, though you can use amber shellac for all pads.
Hot glue sticks (as used in hot glue guns) are being used by several top makers and repairers to install pads with, but it's not all that great - the one saving grace is that it is sticky at reasonably low temperature unlike shellac which needs a fair amount of heat to make it sticky, especially when it comes to sticking onto the backs of pads.
Some repairers like this low temperature stickyness of hot glue sticks when installing sax pads as they have less risk of burning the lacquer. But it remains pliable and pads can shift in hot weather (though a clarinet with pads installed with shellac can also shift if left locked in a car in the summer!)
Any clarinets of a similar serial number made by B&H will have parts that are easily interchangeable - Besson, Rudall-Carte, and all manner of B&H clarinets (Marlborough, 1-20, 2-20, Regent, Edgware, etc.) will have near identical keywork. I've even seen a B&H clarinet on eBay branded 'Gaylord'!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-10-19 17:32)
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Author: Jexas
Date: 2008-10-21 19:21
Thanks Chris
Thats really useful info,I dont think I'll be getting the blowtorch out just yet though as it seems to playing quite nicely.
The only problem I think I have is that the low keys physically are too high and im having to put more pressure than should be necessary I would love to know if they can be adjusted without actually bending the metal?
and if there is a repair manual anyone can reccomend?
Thanks again
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-21 20:45
Bending the keys is the only way to lower the action - the lowest pad opening (measured from the front) should measure between 3 - 3.5mm - the other keys (F#/C# and RH F/C) will have their ventings set according to how they relate to this.
To bend it, hold the connecting lever down and bend the pad cup down as well to reduce the venting, but make sure the touchpieces are all level.
I don't know of any repair manuals apart from the Eric Brand one which is a bit antiquated, but I don't think there's much mention of bending keys. The Yamaha band instrument repair manual was more geared to bending things around to achieve the desired result (and very specific in terms of cork thicknesses and key ventings).
You can do a part-time City&Guild course in woodwind repair at Merton Tech (S.London) or manufacture (which I think may be full-time) at Newark Tech (Notts.)
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2008-10-21 23:02
There is a very comprehensive and modern woodwind repair manual produced by Reg Thorp. It covers just about everything you would want to know and then quite a bit more.
I see there is a copy or two on Amazon.
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Author: Jexas
Date: 2008-10-24 16:32
Hi folks
Thanks again for all the fantastic info I ill definitely try and check those books out.
Chris is the Vandoran 5rv really a mid priced mouth piece? The cheapest one I could find was £79.00 but come to think of it I dont think it specified Lyre?
Are there different types of 5RV's?
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