 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: pplateau
Date: 2008-07-25 17:16
Some allege that the wood on the R-13's of recent years is not as
good as the older Buffets and that Buffet now retains the best wood for the higher priced models. Any good/bad experience with the wood on R-13's since say, 2000???
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-07-25 23:13
No, but since I'm seriously considering a new R13, I'll be following this thread with great interest.
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Author: Menendez
Date: 2008-07-25 23:15
Well,
Some months ago I was talking with an old Buffet's repairman about wood in Buffet clarinets at present. He said me that they made clarinets with 6 month old wood only, due to a high demand at markets.
Because that is more difficult to find a good clarinet when you try several clarinets in a musicstore (but not impossible). But he told me too that it is possible several years later, to find a good clarinet if we become to try the same clarinets again, because the wood is then enough old.
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2008-07-25 23:21
I thought I read/heard somewhere that they don't age grenadilla as long as they used to due to high demand. Can anyone confirm if this is true?
joe w.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-07-26 02:34
many of my students have R13s; i have not noticed any tendency to crack in the newer ones. i saw one crack in a 1950 model instrument. plus a few where the horns were dropped, otherwise, i've not noted any problems with the wood. so i'd say i've had good experience with the newer ones. with 60 students, i see a lot of r13s.
wish i could say the same about the keywork.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-07-26 07:13
Just a thought. Does Buffet Crampon have its own supply of timber, or does it buy from specialized brokers who condition the billets? If this is the case, any problems would affect the entire industry. no?
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Author: IanH
Date: 2008-07-26 08:03
My clarinets are 1967 R13s. Not a crack in them and they travelled through China in mid winter doing theatre sound checks in the morning (ice cold) and hot concerts in the evenings (theatres have heaters!). No cracks, and it was so cold there the joint rings all came off! In comparison my colleague has now cracked one new Buffet Bb R13 and, in desperation, bought a fairly new second hand pair of Buffet 'Prestige' clarinets. He's now quite upset because the Prestige Bb has also cracked. Time we had an answer from Buffet methinks......
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Author: Imperial Zeppelin
Date: 2008-07-26 11:50
Can't remember the exact date of this, I'm thinking mid-70s, but there was a significant process change in wood handling somewhere 20 - 30 years ago. Up to that time, Buffet aged the wood naturally for a significant length of time prior to using. I think it was 6 months, but don't quote me on that.
After "the date" they started to kiln dry the wood so they could get it turned into clarinets fasters. Kiln dried wood tends to crack easier than the naturally aged stuff, e.g. eveyone with a legacy Buffet saying they never had a crack and folks with newer ones getting cracks.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-07-26 17:48
I hav noticed a great tendency among new and newer Buffet R13's to crack. I also know from having owned r13s that this tend truly began in the 80s and is not a new trend.
David Dow
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-07-26 18:27
At a recent Clarinetfest, one of the Buffet regional reps mentioned one fact which caused me a bit of concern. He said that all the best billets of grenadilla (so-called "Grade A" stock) are now being used for the Prestige and Tosca lines, while the next best grenadilla stock ("Grade B") was currently being used for the R-13's.
Thus, if the quality, or grade of wood concerns you, perhaps this is even more of a reason to seek out the older R-13's of the 60's and 70's, since at that time it was the top of the line clarinet Buffet was making, and was constructed with the highest grade wood Buffet had available.
It's also no secret that today's Buffet clarinets are aged less time than in previous generations and are heavily dyed to conceal some of the filler used to even out the grain...GBK
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Author: Neal Raskin
Date: 2008-07-26 20:39
my new r13 cracked this past winter. i purchased it in october, and it cracked in february. i suppose with the whole nickel plating issue, it seems that they may be taking less care in the mass market the R13 holds, and putting more quality and workmanship into the higher models. idk, just a thought.
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-07-26 23:35
One has to keep in mind that grenadilla wood takes a long time to grow a stalk big enough to make a clarinet, and 100 years ago nobody thought that there would be such a high demand for clarinets. It's only been in the past 40 or so years that the clarinet has started to develop into an instrument of such high demand, and there is such a high demand to material ratio that they have to use as much of their wood as they can.
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-07-27 00:19
It would be nice if clarinet manufacturers, Buffet included, would stop producing instruments to make money. It becomes increasingly harder to find an instrument worth investing in when they save the best wood for the higher priced models. I would be willing to pay more for quality and have to wait, than pay the same price for low quality wood.
Maybe I should stop complaining and start saving for a Festivals or Toscas.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-07-27 00:38
Ryder wrote:
> It would be nice if clarinet manufacturers, Buffet included,
> would stop producing instruments to make money.
What ????
Do you expect them to sell instruments are (their) cost???
They are a corporation, with employees and continual rising overhead expenses.
Have you forgotten that simple fact???
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Author: Neal Raskin
Date: 2008-07-27 00:56
To help mediate, it seems that the simple principles of supply and demand have altered the clarinet market. So before, the R13 used to be the top of the line instrument; but now, with rising demand for instruments with quality wood, they have created better models to save the best wood for. And since they are using the better wood in these models, naturally the price goes up.
Soooo, this is the way it will be. If you want the best wood, you can no longer buy the "standard" model in highest demand. You instead need to pony up the cash for the more expensive model. Simple as that. In addition to that, once people increase the demand for the top models with the top wood, those prices will go up to try and balance the levels of supply and demand.
sheesh...i'm a music major, but it looks like i should get a minor in economics... maybe i'll start a clarinet company...
peace,
neal
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Author: clarinetistra
Date: 2008-07-27 06:48
Well, I'll chime in as another purchaser of a new pair of R13s back in late '98, a bit before our "2000" cut-off, but yes, after carefully breaking it in by only playing x number of minutes per day, etc, the Bb cracked. Buffet replaced the upper joint. I hated the replacement's intonation, actually mailed it back to them, received a reply of "there's nothing wrong with it". I was careful with that one too, but inwardly stokeded when it developed 2 long cracks. The third upper joint was nice, but during the break-in weeks also cracked. While waiting for the fourth, I ordered a Rossi directly from Luis, in part because I was tired of dealing with a large impersonal clarinet maker, particularly after the experience with the second upper joint.
The outcome- I love my Rossi, replaced the A as well a few years back. Luis has been a joy to deal with for odds and ends, extra barrels, etc. The 4th R13 has been fine (despite my giving up on break-in periods. by then I figured that if it was going to crack, I wanted it to be quick and over with...) and remains my backup, tho I vastly prefer the Rossi.
I had owned my used '72 R13 for 20 years with never a problem, regretted selling it, despite its loose keywork, to finance the new R13 pair. I still recommend R13s to my students who wouldn't want to spring the extra money for a more fully handmade clarinet.... but personally, at least for soprano clarinets (love my Prestige bass), I can't imagine going back. Haven't had a student with cracking problems, but I just figured my own string of bad luck must have used up a stock of bad wood, improving everyone else's odds against cracking.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-07-27 15:38
Look, while there may be plenty of reasons to be suspicious of the current wood used in R-13s, absolutely nothing will be proven from a couple anecdotes on here about a clarinet cracking here and there. Good break-in or not, clarinets have always been unpredictable and cracked unexpectedly.
Furthermore, I would hope that they are using the best billets for Prestige and Tosca lines, since this is what they've claimed from the beginning. I'm not really sure what the issue is here.
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