 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mario
Date: 2000-09-11 18:36
Hello:
I am interested in comparing note on this topic. Lately, I have been using very tick patches (after much experimenting). Before that, I double-lipped now and then and discovered how better my sound was with this lipping technique.
What I discovered is that, by using tick patches, I almost get the kind of sound and response that I got double lipping. It seems that a tick patch allow the mouthpiece to perform the way it does when it is fully enclosed by lips.
Any comments? What do you think of the relationship between patches and sound?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-09-11 19:35
What an excellent question, Mario, I do agree with your comments on your experience. I use the "rubber mouthpiece cushions" on all of my horns, cl's and saxes, and I like the sounds I get, whether double or single "lipping", which I guess for me, depends upon the music, soft and mellow or bright and loud. My conductors haven't really spoken to me about this, but they haven't thrown me out either!!, of course most of my playing is free any more!!!. Will be very interested in other's comments. Don
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-09-11 19:55
This IS interesting. I've never associated the pads with tones before, only as tooth protection. I just might give this a try.
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Author: mike
Date: 2000-09-11 20:28
It will be different to quantify. Some possibilities are:
(1) the patch damps out higher frequencies that would be transmitted from the mouthpiece to the teeth and into the inner ear through the jawbone. While the player might conclude his sound is different, a listener might notice no difference.
(2) the patch forces the player to open the jaw up a bit more, which changes the shape of the oral cavity and both the player and listener hear a difference.
(3) The player subconsciously tries to adjust their embouchure so the sound they hear is the same either way (this will also depend on how live the room is). So the player might not hear a difference, but the listener would.
Has anyone experimented with this in a recording studio?
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Author: earl
Date: 2000-09-12 00:04
Rubber mouthpiece patches are great for me and certainly is better than trying to convert to double-lip. Strange as it may seem, some of the legendary foreign-born teachers of yesteryear did not advocate that their pupils do double-lip. Mine certainly did not, but he would teach it if requested. I think it's a fine embouchure technique, but I also believe that the rubber patch will give one the same "hear yourself as others hear you" results. ET
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Author: Roger
Date: 2000-09-12 01:54
I have used a patch for my last two lessons and my teacher has commented on my tone -- until I read this thread I did not relate the patch to my improved tone--I will be raising this subject at my next lesson.
Roger--the other one.
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Author: becca
Date: 2000-09-12 04:38
I'm getting a new mouthpiece. What patch brand do you recommend?
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Author: Linda
Date: 2000-09-12 14:36
I use the Runyon, black patches...last longer, play better!!
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-09-12 15:38
I just recently started using the Runyon patches and I also like them. I tried recording myself with and without patches. My equipment is far from state-of-the-art (certainly not broadcast quality -- LOL!) and probably not good enough to discriminate fine differences in tone quality. I only use recording to see if my perceptions of rhythm and intonation and so forth square with reality. But on that set-up, anyway, I don't hear a difference in tone between the recording and what I hear "live" while I'm playing. I do hear a very large difference betwen the recording and "live" while I'm playing without a patch, though, and I think it's because of exactly what someone else mentioned: the teeth transmit sound differently when they're directly against the hard mouthpiece than they do against a lip or a mouthpiece cushion.
I tried switching to double-lip technique and was too set in my ways to manage that change at age 52, though I did start out with double-lip on bass sax two years ago because otherwise the vibrations felt like they were going to do to my skull what happens to a glass marble when you boil it and then drop it in ice water! The double lip also gave me a better embouchure for that huge mouthpiece.
But for soprano clarinet, I'm really more comfortable with single lip, and it seems to me that the mouthpiece cushion makes the tone sound *to me* more the way it sounds *from the outside* to the recording equipment. I think that difference *could* actually cause someone's tone to improve, because if the sound we hear is closer to what listeners hear, the adjustments we make help us sound as good as possible *to them* instead of to ourselves.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2000-09-12 15:48
I play double lip, and putting even a thin patch on my Charles Bay mouthpiece definitely makes it sound slightly duller both to me and to a listener.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2000-09-13 02:12
I use a Vanforen patch. Since the patch increases contact area between upper teeth and mouthpice, upper and lower biting force balance is changed.
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Author: K.S.
Date: 2000-09-13 16:39
I use clear thin plastic ones.
Some brands make it really hard to separate the patch from the protective sheet which covers the glued side of the patch. Once, I even removed the gluey layer from the plastic part of the patch while trying to peel off the protective sheet. It just came off with the sheet! Of course, I had to throw away the patch since it was just a piece of plastic with no adhesive left on it. Get the ones which have a slit in the middle of the protective sheet on the back side of the patch. They are easier to peel the cover off, you only need to lift it up along the slit.
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Author: Sara
Date: 2000-09-14 02:14
I use the clear ones too. They give me a slightly duller tone than the mouthpiee alone does. I used to use the thincker black ones but I think it dulled it too much, the clear kind is a nice median for me. I've always thought that the mouthpiece patches made my tone different sounding, but I thought it was just me. Well good lcuk, this was just my two cents worth!
Sara
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-09-14 04:48
I myself use the thin clear patches. The only reason for this, is because I have a crystal mouthpiece and I wanted to protect my teeth, without changing the feel and look of the mouthpiece. There was still a slight change in feel and tone, but I have gotten used to this, and use the patches on all of my mouthpieces. I also agree that the patches with the slit back are the best as far as adhesive goes. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2000-09-16 09:28
I personally think that mouthpiece patches and double-lipping are different animals. Thick, soft patches are probably a better approximation of double-lip because they require more delicate handling than the thin, hard ones.
One thing I've found with patches is that the thicker ones can cause pitch problems--particularly with students. Some are like putting a scrap of old tire on the mouthpiece. The Yamaha silicon ones are particularly disappointing.
I like the Runyon clear models. They're very thin, tough as nails, and they stay put. I use them mainly to protect rubber mouthpieces from my teeth, and my teeth from metal mouthpieces. They work like a charm.
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