 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2008-07-19 14:16
First off, I am new here, so if I make any comments that seem dumb or tabooed, please forgive me. I have been playing clarinet for about 6 1/2 years, and it is past time for me to step up to a better instrument. I am looking to buy used, and my teacher has been looking at Buffet R13s. When I questioned her about other brands (Leblanc and Selmer notably) she told me that the only people who play on them are the special 10% of the world that would sound good on any clarinet. She tells me that the other 90% play buffets. But, after much research, I have seen that there are many different clarinets out there, such as the Wurlitzer and other German made clarinets that many professionals seem to admire. I do trust her, as she has been my teacher for quite some time, and she is a very good player, but I am the kind of person that needs LOTS of opinions. So, what do you all think? What is the breakdown as you see it?
Thanks for your time.
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Author: Menendez
Date: 2008-07-19 14:50
Well clariknight...
Your teacher is very closed-minded teacher. But dont worry... here in Spain there are a lot of them, who only Buffet exists on the world for, and then break into praise when Sabine Meyer or Karl Leister comes to Spain to performance.
You have to try, if you can, several clarinet brands (Leblanc, Selmer, Yamaha, Patricola...) and choose what you like more.
So simply like that.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2008-07-19 14:59
Many times, a knowledgable person will continue to speak as fact what they learned years ago . . . and sometimes that information becomes outdated. There was a time that your teacher's statement was more true than it is today. You are wise to both respect your teacher and at the same time see if there is some newer information that you need to consider before you make your purchase.
I play an R13. If I were going out to buy a new clarinet today, I would make sure to at least try the Yamahas. I would not have said that 10-15 years ago.
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Author: dim
Date: 2008-07-19 15:04
Buffet, Leblanc, Selmer Paris is a good instrument.
Each of it has many characteristic.
Try it before you buy a new clarinet..
I can suggest, Buffet RC or Prestige, Leblanc Opus II, Selmer Signature or a new Privilege.
For Wurlitzer, they sell Reform-Boehm clarinet and the price is very expensive to me about 4555 - 480 Euro..
Other brand is Schille, made the French system clarinet (handmade) and it price is about 3400 Euro.
Another German brand, like Hammerscmidt, Mueller, Letner & Kraus, Dietz clarinet..
Or another French clarinet, like Stephen Fox and Peter Eaton, they've made a good clarinet too, not a mass production like Buffet, Leblanc, and Selmer Paris.
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2008-07-19 17:14
Hmm, so it seems I should be trying out other brands then. I do love the tone of the Wurlitzers, especially what I have heard from Sabine Meyer. But, that price range is something to dream about right alongside winning the lottery. Perhaps if I pursue a professional career in clarinet it may be worth it, but a the moment it is far too much. I will try my best to play some leblancs and selmers, and see what that does for me. Unfortunately, I will probably end up buying an R13, as buying anything else would feel like a certain betrayal to my teacher. But, this is all very good information for the future, if I decide to buy a new clarinet. And who knows, maybe she'll go for another brand if she hears me playing better on a Leblanc then on an R13.
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Author: patrickryan04
Date: 2008-07-19 18:45
Try the yamahas especially the CSG, they are great horns very solid across the board. They also run quite a bit cheaper then the R-13, Leblanc Opus or the high end Selmers. I believe the price for a new Bb is around 2200, at that price you may not have to buy a used instrument you could purchase a new horn! Definitly try before you buy take a tuner, a few reeds and a second set of ears!
1st Armored Division Band
Clarinetist
Dixie Band
Woodwind Quintet
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-07-19 19:34
dont forget the Ridenour Lyrique which is also a good quality clarinet which is not a lot of $$.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-07-19 19:36
> she told me that the only people who play on them are the special 10% of
> the world that would sound good on any clarinet.
Yeha, now I feel really special. :-)
If you're concerned about the budget, try to find a Couesnon Monopole. Or a Marigaux Symphonie. They're not easy to find these days, probably for a good reason.
--
Ben
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2008-07-19 20:12
It sounds to me like you are looking to step up to a used mainstream, entry-level professional instrument and want good value for your money. That you are considering used R13s, suggests you are willing to spend $1,000 - $1,200. I will assume that you are looking for an instrument that will last you for quite awhile.
At the risk of attracting flames, rather than give the PC recommendation that you must try everything under the sun, and not limit yourself to the R13, I'm going to argue that, while I don't completely buy her 90% argument, if $1,200 is about what you are willing to spend, I do think that following your teacher's advice may be a good strategy. The fact is that far more clarinetists in the U.S. play R13s than any other professional clarinet -- perhaps more than all the other makes combined. So, a good used R13 is likely to be easier to find than a good recent used instrument from another manufacturer. And, if you can find a good used R13, you will likely be perfectly happy with it. While you will find many people on this Bulletin Board who will tell you that you should try a variety of models before you buy, and some who will tell you that they prefer something other than the R13, very few can honestly tell you that the R13 is not a good clarinet.
Are there other clarinets that could make you equally happy? Probably (but you may not have the playing experience to detect subtle differences). Could you find one that would make you at least as happy at a lower cost? Probably (but you'll have to be willing to take your chances with eBay or some other internet source). Is it worth the trouble? Depends on what instruments are available to you locally and how long you're willing to search for the perfect horn.
I'm reading recommendations you try Wurlitzers, CSG's, Signatures, Priveleges -- but the truth is that these models are so new (or, in the case of the Wurlitzers scarce at any age, particularly in the U.S.) that your odds of finding a used one locally any time soon are virtually nil.
I don't agree that you should buy an instrument simply out of loyalty to your teacher (and I would be particularly careful about buying one from your teacher or a store that employs her). It's your money and your playing future. But, IMO, unless you are willing to expend a lot of time and energy on a search, you are not likely to do better than an R13.
If you do decide to try other makes, I would recommend that you limit yourself to the Big 4 and avoid clarinets that are more than 15 - 20 years old. You want a clarinet that can grow old gracefully with you, not one that's ready to be put out to pasture before you buy it. That means, I wouldn't look at any Leblanc model that preceded the Concerto and Opus, any Selmer before the S10 or any Yamaha before the YCL 72. An older R13 in excellent condition could be OK if the price is right but that's the only exception I would make. And, if you are willing to spend $1,200, you shouldn't have to make any exceptions.
If you can't find a good used R13 in your area for under $1,500, then you might want to consider a new Yamaha (but I would look at the SEV as well as the CSG). Otherwise, though, I don't think you can go wrong with an R13 (and, if you do, it will hold its resale value better than any of the other makes).
Best regards,
jnk
(donning his flame-retardant underwear)
Post Edited (2008-07-19 20:15)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-07-19 22:42
Jack gave very goo advice, and I will not aim my flamethrower over that way in any case.
Something nobody else has mentioned s the Leblanc/Backun instruments. THe Cadenza is a great pro-level horn for sub-$2K, and they have brought out the new Backun/Bliss models, which should sell for even less.
Check the links on the right side of the page and look for Instruments, then click on Kessler Music. They are a Leblanc stocking dealer, and I have heard great things about them from users of this board. It might be worth a cvall to the Kesslers' shop. They also have some nice Selmer 10S models on clioseout right now.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-07-19 23:14
I think Jack Kissinger's advice is excellent. Although there are other clarinets that (in good condition) can play as well as an R13, the R13 is almost never the *wrong* instrument. Nearly any conductor will be happy to see you bring an R13 to a rehearsal. You won't get arguments about it, or get funny looks for playing it, because it's the one model so universally known that even conductors fairly ignorant about the clarinet will know it's a pro-quality instrument.
Btw, if your present clarinet is plastic, it's a good idea to keep it, for playing outdoors or in other situations where the instrument might be at risk. Don't take an expensive wooden R13 out in the weather or up in the bleachers where it might fall down.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-20 02:29
Your teacher was correct twenty years ago but that applied to the USA. At that time most orchestra players in this country played Buffets, but times have changed. They may still be the number one clarinets used in our orchestras but there are a great many exceptions now. Major players are using all makes and models. I’ve been a Buffet player for Bb and A clarinet all my life until I fell in love with a Selmer Signature two years ago. Now I use the Selmer Bb and an A buffet, I’ve always used a Selmer Bass but my Eb is a Buffet. What ever fits. Try as many as you can to see what fits you best. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (Mozart)
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2008-07-20 13:38
Excellent advice all around it seems. Jack- thank you very much for the detailed analysis, that seems to make a lot of sense. Yes, I am looking to spend around 1000 to 1200 for a good used pro level instrument. As I do not really want to spend more (nor can I really at this point) it looks like, thanks to Jack's advice, the R13 will be a best choice. My teacher is in touch with the principal clarinet of a local symphony orchestra, and I am sure R13s pass his way from students. Thank you all once again for the great advice! One day I will perhaps look into a wider range of instruments when I am more experienced and have a larger budget, but for now something that sounds better than a crappy intermediate level yamaha with a large crack in it will do just fine.
And, no, it will not be my first wood instrument:)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-07-20 15:33
What makes a cadenza a non- pro horn? I've played one many gigs and I got paid! Because it's at the low price end of the line doesn't make a non-pro instrument. This will problably get edited but, If you have the opportunity to play a cadenza next to a r-13 straight out of the box, I bet you will not believe how much better (more pro) the cadenza is over the R13. Maybe this non pro thing stems from the fact that there is no cadenza "A" clarinet. But there are a lot of Professional clarinetist that will never need an A so maybe that's the point.
Tom Puwalski Leblanc performing artist
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-07-20 15:45
Tom Puwalski wrote:
> This will problably
> get edited but,
What in the world would make you think that statement would get edited out? You've put your disclaimer in ...
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-07-21 11:23
A used R13 is probably a sensible choice.
But if you're in the store, and you have the chance, have a go on everything they've got! (within reason) ... just to see. Personally I made sure to try R13, RC and all the Leblancs ... before I bought my Selmer Paris ... :-)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-07-21 15:16
Run up to Halifax and try out a couple dozen (John Weir permitting) Orsi & Weir. Look at the Cocobollo Bb with the European bore!
Bob Phillips
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Author: fernan
Date: 2008-07-21 17:37
I'm with everyone who says try all of it. Try and find the one that fits your playing and your budget. Your playing will certainly grow over the years, and then you may need another clarinet that will suit your needs at that time.
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2008-07-21 18:01
Don't count out the Lyrique Custom, designed by Tom Ridenour (he designed the original Leblanc Opus). It plays at least as well as a good R13. When I've compared my Lyrique to most R13's, it really is better in-tune. A new Lyrique will also probably be cheaper than a good used R13. The Lyrique is also hard rubber, so it will not crack.
It really does play at least as good as a decent R13 (better, in my very humble opinion...I love the tone). I used to play a Buffet until I discovered Ridenour's instruments.
Tom doesn't pay me to say this stuff; I just think it's worthwhile for people to know that his instrument is a good option, alongside all of the other pro horns. His website is www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com, if you're interested in checking it out.
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