 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2008-05-18 16:32
I have been reading threads on this board about the Rossini, "Introduction, Theme and Variations" and keep seeing people allude to a high C, but no where in my part does that appear! I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not, since that note is not too easy to produce, but I was just curious as to where exactly it appears in the piece. The edition I have is the Oxford University Press (1966, 1970), edited by David Glazer.
I was also wondering what people think the character is of each variation. I have been considering adjectives, visuals, and even stories for each and I was just curious as to how everyone considers these variations.
Also- any good fingering suggestions for the altissimo notes? I find that in var. I (for example), jumping from [clarion] B to [altissimo] F is tricky in the fingerings. When my support is there the note pops out but it doesn't blend. If I drop the air it sounds horrid and out of character. So what are some tricks to playing these notes 1) in tune, 2) in character, 3) in such a way that they will blend with the rest of the line rather than sounding like a nice lilting triplet passage then POP!! F! triplet---G!!! and so on?
I believe the only version I have heard of this piece was by Charlie Neidich and his technique is simply amazing. I was trying to listen to Martin Frost on naxos but the volume knob on my speakers chose to break right then. :(
What are some of your favorite recordings? I have seen people suggesting De Peyer and though I haven't heard his version, I cannot get over his style, which I suppose is too French for me (i.e. the use of vibrato, the fact that it's wide vibrato, etc..). Are there any other good ones out there?
Thanks!
-Lindsie
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-05-18 22:53
De Peyer, too French???? English more like. In fact there really isn't anyone who plays like De Peyer and Jack Brymer did in England. I play wide bore Eatons but without the vibrato. For Var 1 try using long F or overblown A.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2008-05-19 01:26
But he studied in Paris and the French style of playing calls for wide vibrato...
-Lindsie
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Author: xarkon
Date: 2008-05-19 16:38
For recordings, try "A Night at the Opera", Sabine Meyer.
Dave
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Author: RLSchwebel
Date: 2008-05-19 22:51
Music Is Life:
Gosh, It seems I just used standard "long" fingerings for the F and G...good luck!
~robt
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2008-05-20 05:50
Lindsie wrote: "the French style of playing calls for wide vibrato..."
Where did you get that idea from?
Gervase De Peyer is one of the top players in what we all consider to be a British school of clarinet playing. One of the characteristics of this school is the use of a rather wide vibrato. French players that I have heard, when they do use vibrato (which seems to be less and less often these days), tend to use a quick and narrow vibrato.
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Author: clarionman
Date: 2008-05-20 14:11
"Also- any good fingering suggestions for the altissimo notes? I find that in var. I (for example), jumping from [clarion] B to [altissimo] F is tricky in the fingerings."
I think I play the [altissimo] F: register key, thumb, 123 123 + the c#/g# key on the left hand.
I am just trying to remember I don't have my clarinet or music with me at the moment.
I also have the same version of the piece that you have and it does not call for a high C anywhere. That I do remember for sure.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2008-05-20 15:52
What do you all think of playing the G as an overblown B?
The bit about vibrato in French playing was from an orchestration book I have from a college orchestration class, in which it discussed the use of vibrato on clarinet, sighting the main differences between the German and French styles. I could unearth it for an exact quote and a title, but I am in the process of moving, so that might be hard! :-)
In any case, that is immaterial with regard to my original question. I do realize I gave mention to De Peyer, but I didn't mean for it to spiral off into a whole other discussion. :-) Perhaps for another board... ;-)
I finally managed to listen to the Martin Frost version and it IS amazing, however I find that I feel intimidated by the piece because both Frost and Neidich take the tempi throughout MUCH faster than called for in the piece. Although I find their ability at tempi that can be as fast as 40-50 clicks higher than indicated (or, I think I clocked Frost at about 168 when the piece called for 120, for example), it's unnerving. I'd like to hear someone play it more conservatively! Perhaps it won't be as impressive, I am not sure, but I'd at least like to here an amazing player demonstrating great tone and technique but at a more realistic tempo.
BTW- I think a prevalent thought in my head as I play the theme is "joke." It's just really lighthearted and fun to play and it seems that there is an obvious play on the beat vs. offbeat, making it seem almost as if the eighth note on beat one is just a pick up to the quarter, which is accented. I could be interpreting that wrong, but it seems like opera comique. I'm not great at music history, so please correct me if I'm wrong!! :-)
-Lindsie
Post Edited (2008-05-20 23:09)
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2008-05-20 15:59
Also- another thought that came to me whilst listening to Martin Frost: I do not know anything about Rossini, so how much ornamentation is acceptable in this type of music? I recall some semblance of ornamentation rules from playing Mozart's Clarinet Concerto, is Rossini at all the same? I only ask because Frost ornamented and played...I guess....ein gongs? (sp?) Not sure...and I want to capture the history behind the piece as well, not just the style and technique. Does that make sense? o.o
-Lindsie
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2008-05-20 21:48
Lindsie- finding out about Rossini is a very good idea to help you learn this piece. One thing that you'll discover is that Rossini never gave metronome markings in his scores. So the metronome markings that you have in yours are from the editors.
Rossini was primarily an opera composer and composed about 40 operas, many of them light-hearted comedies. Listen to Il Barbiere di Siviglia as his most famous example. Virtuosity was highly valued by opera singers of the time, and it was common to add embellishments to what was printed in the score. (This can be seen in singing tutors of the period in which written out versions of a particular singer's embellishments are shown). One can only assume that instrumental soloists added similar (if perhaps less indulgent) embellishments to pieces like this.
I would agree with your thoughts about the piece being humorous, and the beat versus off-beat which give it a mischievous character. But I think you must be referring to the THEME, and not Var.1??
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