 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: r13champ
Date: 2008-05-13 22:52
It came to my attention that Mike Han's youtube videos were mentioned on this bb. Being korean myself, I have heard from close sources of the music scene in Korea.
First of all, the prodigy series Mr. Han is a part of consists of great talents of young age. Mr. han is in fact one of MANY MANY upcoming korean "prodigies" entering our musical community. Apparently the korean clarinet teaching style is very advanced and allows young players with talent and direction to have VERY solid fundamentals, understanding of phrasing, and so forth. There is no doubt that Mike is obviously one of the more talented clarinet students of his age. Keep in mind... There are MANY others right beside him.
So watch what you say when you use the word "prodigy". It is the norm to be playing at a high level at such a young age these days. The younger generations are creeping on the older ones faster than you would expect.
r13champ
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-05-13 23:04
If you have Youtube of any of the others let's hear em - that young on Clarinet.
Happens all the time on Piano, Violin, but haven't seen but a couple on the Clarinet. Even at a high talent level place like Interlochen it doesn't happen on Clarinet at that age very often at all.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: r13champ
Date: 2008-05-13 23:08
It seems that you did not read my original post very well David.
There are MANY other clarinetist out there just like Mike Han who are in korea working very hard.
If you find his playing to be beyond what you could have conceived at that age, than read my last sentence of my original post.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-05-13 23:14
r13champ,
David was asking you to substantiate your opinion, not just to restate it.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: r13champ
Date: 2008-05-13 23:15
Visit Korea. Will save you plenty of time to argue what you can not hear.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-05-13 23:32
Btw, yes, it is all about the work ethic. If the kids are working really hard at clarinet instead of getting a higher Guitar hero level than they will excel.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-05-13 23:40
My word! Not all of us wants to go to Korea. I've seen the video and believe he has alot of study in front of him in terms of music. I had this discussion yesterday regarding the recent winner of the BBC's Young Musician of the Year. I personally thing these children are to young for the spotlight, let them have a childhood first.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-05-13 23:45
It's also are kids that young physically *able* to get that good at the Clarinet, or are the ones who do so quite unusual?
Regardless of the teacher. I doubt that Korean teachers have anything over European, American, South American, Icelandic, etc
It's all about how hard the students work, but can lots of kids on the Clarinet get that good that young?
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: r13champ
Date: 2008-05-13 23:48
This is all based on word of mouth, I may not be able to find youtube videos of all the 12 year old clarinet players in korea. However, I do know that my sources are very reliable and that the past generation of clarinet players may not have the resources that the young generations have aquired.
Be prepared for upcoming and an increasing amount of competition. Every generation learns from its predecessors.
Post Edited (2008-05-14 00:01)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-05-14 00:41
I can assure you r13champ that my comment is not based on 'word of mouth'. I find the tone of your last post quite forthright and aggressive. I would also like to add that I am not in the slightist bit worried about 'the competition' and have found players, generally, from Korea to be of a 'lower' standard than players from Europe and the US. I am in no way degrading Korean musicians but merely making observations from the people I have met and worked with, and on that note I bid good night.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-05-14 01:13
From the first post- "The younger generations are creeping on the older ones faster than you would expect."
The performance related injuries are also starting at a younger age more often than you would expect.
[This is not a comment about Mike Han's playing.]
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-05-14 01:35
This isn't that surprising. Korea has been putting out stellar string players for years. The same thing has been the case for flute for a long time. I've predicted we'd see the same thing for clarinet soon enough. It's a new wave of players and to dismiss it would be just as foolish as automatically crowning them.
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Author: tdinap
Date: 2008-05-14 02:02
I wouldn't be surprised if many young Korean musicians are far beyond their American counterparts. The cultural differences have a huge effect--in the US, most students are not expected to even dream of playing at that level when they are twelve years old. I won't pretend to know all that much about Korean culture, but I think that in general, most children there probably have a much stronger work ethic. A very interesting article on Korean education was in the New York Times a few weeks ago (you may have to log in to read it):
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/world/asia/27seoul.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=korean+ivy+league+college&st=nyt&oref=slogin
Tom
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Author: r13champ
Date: 2008-05-14 02:47
Amen to that Tom. Glad someone here thinks outside the box.
This bb is too dry anyway. See ya all later
r13champ
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-05-14 04:06
There are enough American kids who can't read at their grade level, much less kids who can play that well at 12. By 14, maybe...I've seen only a few of those here.
If he's not unique, then, indeed, the question is, "What happens to all of us 'Westerners' when all of these kids come here for orchestra gigs?"
And given that there are fewer and fewer orchestra gigs, will such talent in "classical" music even matter in a couple of decades???
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2008-05-14 04:49
David wrote:" I doubt that Korean teachers has anything over European, American etc."
David,
An American teacher will give a lesson once a week and teachers in other countries will give 3-4 lessons a week.
Maxim Vengerov had lessons with his teacher everyday.
Thats how you make superstars.
About Han Kim, he is playing VERY well but his intonation is not as good as his other abilities on the instrument. It may be a signthat the level of his talent is not as high as we think.
Sarah
Post Edited (2008-05-20 17:47)
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-05-14 05:17
Get outa here...Mike Han is one in a million. The idea that there are many more similar clarinet prodigies in Korea or any where else is a brackish fantasy.
If there were any, they'd all over Youtube, just like little Mike.
Get real r13champ.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-05-14 08:28
Question for Sarah- in what countries is it the norm to have 3-4
lessons/week??
-
As far as the quality of young players in Asia vs. the US. I don't find it any higher or lower per capita. A few kids are very good and and a few are very bad; most do well enough to get by. One big difference (at least in Japan) is that they usually quit much later and sometimes start later than in the US. The average relative income/cost of living is higher than in the West. This allows for continued enjoyment of non-subsistence activities and hobbies. Many many universities in Japan have a symphonic band or orchestra, but these are mostly amateur- few of the members imagine or even want to make any kind of career in music. They do it 100% for fun.
A very common problem in the US in the past 15 years is money. Things like music lessons and instrument rental have become less important to parents- and rightly so, music is indeed much less important than basic needs like health insurance and rent.
No insult to South Korea or any country, but there is no "musical address" where all the kids go around humming Bach in 5 voice harmony to themselves.
Post Edited (2008-05-14 11:45)
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2008-05-14 12:11
skygardener wrote:
> Question for Sarah- in what countries is it the norm to have
> 3-4
> lessons/week??
Well, It is very common in east Europe. Some teachers in Israel work like that too. If the student is practicing 3-4 hours a day ( Han Kim or Mike Han probably works more than that), we give them 3 lessons a week or 2 long lessons (1 hour with the teacher and another hour with the teacher and the pianist). Its true that the Conservatories are very poor because of this generous policy, but its good for the students and also for the teachers, because we give lessons to less students. The good students usually get scholarships for the extra lessons.
This is not new. Arthur Rubinstein wrote in his biography that as a young student, he worked with his teacher every day.
Sarah
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-05-14 12:26
Kim at 10 with the Concertino recording was just ok - still amazing for that age, but just "ok" for a talented student who had played for 3-4 years.
The next year his recordings took a drastic upswing and were really good. Don't know if he got another teacher, or if at 11 he was finally old enough to make the really fast progress.
Compare his Weber to his Kovacs - much better tone and higher technique level.
Yes, lessons more than once a week can make really good progress. Some of the South American Countries have that too where it is funded and daily practices, lessons occur.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: tdinap
Date: 2008-05-14 12:34
Now to open another controversial can of worms: The question is whether playing that well at age 12 really makes you that much better of a player as an adult...
Tom
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-05-14 12:43
Tom, that's kind of what I was implying in my post above. (In addition to wondering about the future of "classical" music.) _If_ these kids stay on that same trajectory of improvement who's to say they'll make a career out of it? Maybe they'll quit and become stockbrokers...Who knows....
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-05-14 13:27
Sarah, thank you.
From what you say, it still seems that the students that have these 3-4 lessons are the more gifted minority, not the average of all students taking music lessons. Yes, perhaps Rubinstein had a lesson everyday, but was that unique to his situation or did every child in his school that played piano do the same?
It is also true that some students marry their teacher, but I would hardly call that 'average'.
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Author: alpharettablue
Date: 2008-05-19 18:59
There are many talented asian musicians in my community. My observation is that on average, asian families put more emphasis on classical music training and demand more in terms of practice than the "average" anglo family. This leads to more prodigal asian musicians.
Anglo and african-american families put more emphasis on athletics and rock music. I know lots of Anglo and african american families that are obsessive about their kids athletic abilities from a very early age, and have them practicing training or playing seven days a week. This leads to more anglo standout athletes in these groups.
But these are generalizations. Not all asians are good at music, not all anglos stink.
I find that treating everyone as an individual with their own strengths, weaknesses and interests is the most useful strategy. I certainly want my kid to be able to follow her heart, not the current stereotypes.
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