 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-04-11 23:24
My answer is no. Yet members of a local Ballet get it during their summer off season....
Is that right? To me that is draining a legit resource for non legit reason. If a player takes an 8 month gig, its an 8 month gig, not a year long gig that for 4 months the player is 'unemployed'.
Thoughts?
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2008-04-12 02:41)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-04-11 23:29
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> My answer is no. Yet members of the Pennsylvania Ballet get it
> during their summer off season....
Seasonal workers get unemployment if they meet the test of the unemployment law in your state - like construction workers in the north, lawn care people, etc. Why should players be different?
If you're saying the law should be changed - bring it up to your politicians.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-04-11 23:34
Depends.
When the player's contract denies the right to work those 4 months elsewhere, then the employer should pay for full 12 months. No unemployment here.
If the employer doesn't forbid off-season jobs but has a schedule that de facto hinders the employee to find eg an off-season job, then it still is the employer's fault and it shouldn't be offloaded to taxpayers or the employee.
The only reason to get unemployment is when the contract ends after eg 8 months and isn't automatically renewed next season.
IMHO and IANAL.
--
Ben
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2008-04-11 23:43
Here are my thoughts:
1) If the employer is paying the state unemployment insurance, and the players legitmately file for the claim, then they should get it. That's the law as it currently stands.
2)Other seasonal workers, such as fishermen in Alaska, get unemployment during the off season, even though they can gross in six figures for the time the the fishing season is open.
3)Other industries are subsidized to an even greater extent. Such as farming, energy production, etc.
4)Musicians don't make that much esp freelancers. Give them a break. The concentious ones will be practicing anyway during that time.
5)Finally, they need the money for beer at the Pirates games.
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2008-04-12 00:15
That type of setup is typical to freelance orchestras - at least in Chicago. There is a large overlap in players in each organization and players opt out, as they should be able to, for the best paying job. I don't see any problem with that.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2008-04-12 00:47
Yes.
Film editors, for example, get paid tons of money to work on a film and then collect unemployment when the job is done and before they take another one.
In addition, to unemployment benefits, there should also be free health care, education through university, efficient public transportation, writ of habeus corpus, guaranteed right to privacy, potable drinking water, child care, and all the other things that come with a decent modern society.
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Author: Neil
Date: 2008-04-12 01:12
I think they should sneak across the border and work as mariachis.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2008-04-12 01:47
OK - forget the potable drinking water then. Too expensive.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-04-12 13:26
The only governmental agency that has made a profit is the post office. All others get their money from us taxpayers. In the end the taxpayers pay for everything.
I say," Let the musicians eat cake".
Bob Draznik
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2008-04-12 18:00
I don't think vacationing musicians should get "free" sour grapes. After all vacationing school teachers don't.
(Duck quick)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-04-12 18:54
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> I don't view it any differently than a schoolteacher being off
> for the summer.
But the law does ... you might want to check it. I'm eligible for unemployment for 10 days over Christmas and New Year's Day if I don't take those days as paid holidays.
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Author: hans
Date: 2008-04-12 19:48
Re: ".....schoolteacher being off for the summer...." - It may be different south of the border, but in Ontario summers are unpaid time off and teachers are paid for a school year based on a certain number of legislated days.
It seems to create a lot of envy among those who aren't aware of it. The grass is always greener, etc.......
Post Edited (2008-04-12 20:22)
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2008-04-12 20:52
David, you're in Ontario so the Canadian Federal & Ontario laws apply here. If these people are free-lancers, they're not entitled to Employment Insurance. However if they're considered as employees by CRA, then their employers are required to deduct CPP and EI premiums from their paycheques. Whether they're considered employees of the ballet company or self-employed for sure has been tested already, as has the situation of many of those who play for Canadian orchestras. Once determined to be employees, CRA is like a pitbull in demanding the payroll deductions.
Since these people contribute to the bulging Employment Insurance pool in Canada they certainly are entitled to receive benefits as long as they fulfill the other requirements, like sticking around inside Canada "available for employment" and don't take a trip outside the country. Based on what happened with one of my tax clients, it appears that Canada Customs and Immigration communicates with Employment Insurance whenever EI wants to check on an EI recipient. They'd have to repay any benefits received during their travel outside the country.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-04-12 20:55
Concerning Canada,this is very much dependent upon the particular Province and their ever fluctuating rules. It is also different for full-time and part-time teachers and for performers as well. It is also contingent upon how you fill out the myriads of paperwork. My wife(a piano instructor at Concordia for 25 years) and I left Quebec,( home of the highest tax rate in North America) for Ontario for these and other reasons.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-04-12 21:01
Yes indeed Brenda. We have received those lovely calls pertaining to trips taken while being paid employment insurance. I have also known prominent musicians who travel around Canada and have students stay in their homes and forward the checks.
Post Edited (2008-04-12 21:02)
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2008-04-12 23:30
David, so then the PA rules would apply. I just saw the "ISP in Waterloo, ON Canada" and assumed, sorry. Canada's EI pool is so large that it's just as well that someone who's worthy (like a musician!) use it when not employed.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2008-04-13 00:08
Hmm, if they pay their income tax, social security tax, and medicare tax, I'd think they were entitled to the unemployment compensation. Of course, I also believe in providing health care for all citizens...
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-04-13 19:20
I don’t agree with you on this one David, so many others that get laid off for seasonal reasons that have worked enough during the required time period collect unemployment insurance, why shouldn’t a musician. It’s hardly the same salary they were getting when they were employed and they do have to declare it as income when they do their taxes. If they are lucky enough to find a performance job on the off season, and I’m sure most would rather do that the sit around for four months, then they don’t collect for the weeks they are fortunate enough to find work. Why should a musician be any different than a construction worker, a house painter or electrician etc. when it comes to seasonal work? We get little enough government support as musicians in the USA and at least in this case the employer has to pay into the fund that the musicians collect from. ESP, www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-04-14 01:10
Yeah, I see what you guys are referring to. I thought unemployment was only for being actually unemployed, not underemployed or specific seasonal employment. Like the auto worker who gets laid off as the plant makes cuts, etc. - they are the ones who don't see it coming and can't plan accordingly. But I see that there are different shades of it.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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