 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: TomD
Date: 2008-04-02 15:25
I'm sure this has been discussed many times but I am unclear about the implications of the missing "autograph score". Are we to believe that the concerto as we know it today for the 'A' soprano clarinet is a reconstruction based on best guesses by music historians? I don't want to believe this because I've always reverred Mozart's work so much that it would be such a disappointment to find out that what we play might not have been exactly what he wrote. Can anyone shed any light on this?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-04-02 15:39
TomD wrote:
> Are
> we to believe that the concerto as we know it today for the 'A'
> soprano clarinet is a reconstruction based on best guesses by
> music historians?
Yes - and modern scholarship says it wasn't written for an A soprano clarinet, but an A basset clarinet going to low C.
There are quite a number of editions of the concerto, some probably more accurate as to period usage than others. See http://www.clarinet.org/fests/1998/Koons.asp for some comments on editions (this article is from 1998).
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-04-03 00:33
Get Colin Lawson's Cambridge Companion to the Mozart Concerto. It will really shed some light for you and yes it is for basset clarinet or as was programmed when Stadler first played the instrument in concert the Bas clarinette. The 'traditional' arrangement was done between 1791 and 1804 when Mozart's Concerto was reviewed. The review had quote's which included the 'basset' notes. We also have the manuscript of the Concerto for Basset Horn in G which has the low Cs etc. This is all of the exposition and most of the development sections.
Can I recomend you listen to recordings of:
Michael Collins (modern basset)
Colin Lawson (period basset)
Tony Pay (period basset)
Eric Hoeprich (period basset)
Wolfgang Meyer (period basset)
There are others and in fact I have a live recording of myself doing it on my basset with my orchestra.
Enjoy as the basset clarinet opens a whole new world of possibilites with this great work.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Augustus
Date: 2008-04-03 01:10
David Shifrin also has a fine recording of the Concerto and Quintet played on an extended range clarinet built for him by the distinguished wind instument maker Leonard Gullotta, with the Mostly Mozart Orchestra, recorded in 1984.
Augustus
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Author: TomD
Date: 2008-04-03 13:48
One article that I read on the web states that Mozart's publisher took the original bassett clarinet version and transposed the low notes up into the range of the more common clarinet and published that but that he did not publish the original before stadler took it. If this is true, then can we assume that the orchestral arrangement for all of the other instruments is Mozart's work and that even the clarinet part is largely unchanged (minus the low notes) from what Mozart intended?
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-04-03 22:32
Anton Stadler took the concerto and a clarinet of his own design on tour toward the end of 1971. Whether he took the original autograph or a copy, we do not know. In any event, Mozart's widow said in a letter to the publisher Johann Andre that Stadler told her he had lost a case containing both the music and his clarinet in Germany. You can find the letter in the complete 3-volume 1938 edition of Mozart's letters translated by Emily Anderson.
Stadler continued to perform the concerto after his return to Vienna following the five-year tour, indicating he still possessed either the autograph or a copy.
The concerto was probably performed in public for the first time in Prague on October 16 1791.
In the absence of an autograph, probably the most important textual source is the engraved edition published by André in Offenbach in 1801. Other editions were published about the same time by Breitkopf & Härtel in Leipzig and by Jean-Georges Sieber in Paris, but the archives of the Paris Conservatoire, which was then the most important school for clarinettists in Europe, contain only André's version.
André took over the family publishing business at the age of 24, and immediately stole a march on Breitkopf & Härtel by purchasing all of Mozart's works still in the possession of his widow, including autographs.
Pointing out the advantage he held over Breitkopf & Härtel in controlling the manuscripts, Constanze told André in May 1800, 'For heaven's sake see that your editions are as correct as it is possible to make them'. ICorrespondence, p. 1472)
Autographs were not then considered with the same reverence that they are today, and Mozart's contemporaries did not hold him in the same awe that we do. Breitkopf & Härtel had dallied in negotiations with Constanze, apparently because they already had most of the works they needed in manuscript copies from other sources. Piracy was rife in Vienna at the time, and copyists made money on the side by making and selling extra copies.
André, although he stated that his editions were produced 'd'après la partition in manuscript', acknowledged that his proof-reader, Franz Gleissner, had mixed autographs and copies indiscriminately. There were, he said, 'several compositions the originals of which I had been unable to obtain but of which I had procured copies made in Mozart's own lifetime'.
Autographs are one of several possible types of textual source material material along with manuscript copies, printed editions and orchestral parts?. Manuscript copying was the usual means of transmission in late eighteenth-century Vienna.
An autograph may not represent the final thoughts of the composer. A copy or printed edition can be a more accurate depiction of his intent. It would be nice to have the autograph of the concerto, I agree, since it would clear up the mystery of Stadler's clarinet. The musicologist Pamela Poulson uncovered evidence in Riga, where Stadler gave concerts, that the clarinet was a straight instrument with a basset box on the end, much like a miniature basset horn. Since the instrument was a one-off, there would have been no marketing sense in selling music written specifically for it. That is probaly why all three original publishers issued versions for a traditional clarinet in A.
The musicologist George Dazely noted in 1948 that the way the concerto was written pointed to an instrument descending to low C. Mozart wrote the clarinet concerto in the same four-month period that he completed La Clemenza di Tito and Die Zauberflöte, and began the Requiem. All of these prominently featured the basset horn, and an earlier sketch of the first movement of the concerto was written for a basset horn in G. All of which suggests that Stadler's instrument may have resembled the basset horn, with the same downward range.
You can find out more about the concerto and the development of a version for basset clarinet by consulting the site of the Neue Mozart Ausgabe, which includes all of Mozart's scores. None of the versions currently on the market, including the so-called "Ur-text" edition by Baermann is the same as the printed edition published by Andre in 1801. It would be interesting to know why so many different articulations have been introduced over the years, since the Andre version is possible as close to the composer's intention as it is possible to get. At least, I shall believe that until someone produces evidence to the contrary.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-04-04 00:01
Beejay, the Riga programme clearly shows an extended clarinet with a bulbous bell at a right angle facing away from the player. It in no way resembled a small basset horn as these have an angled middle section for ease of playing. An interesting point that should be made is that there was a hole in the middle of the right angle so that the low C would be in tune. Eric Hoprich summised and demonstrated that a low B can infact be played by covering the hole with the knee. There are points in the score, in the first and last movts where this would be possible. Also we know this instrument did exsist because of the one movement work by Sussmayer, in which he only completed the 1st movt.
Coming to Tomd, the orchestration is all Mozart. What is interesting is when he was composing the version for G basset horn he had no bassoons, but when he moved to the key of A he decides to add them. This I feel is very significant because Mozart really knew what it would sound like in his head and to have bassoons with the G basset horn would have most likely overpowerd the soloist bearing in mind that the soloist could have provided the bass line as is sometimes the case in the A Major version. It's really all about using the clarinet as a colour in Mozart's case. Just study the orchestration of the late operas to see that.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2008-04-04 06:42
Peter wrote: "the Riga programme clearly shows an extended clarinet with a bulbous bell at a right angle facing away from the player. "
Actually on the Riga programme the bulbous bell faces towards the player. Eric Hoeprich believes that it was turned like this to fit into the engraving, but would have been played pointing outwards. There are other players who believe that for tonal reasons it actually sounds better facing the player, exactly as it looks in the engraving. Perhaps we'll never know...
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-04-04 08:06
beejay wrote: "...the instrument was a one-off..."
La Clemenza has a part for basset clarinet in Bb, so it wasn't quite a one-off. Or maybe there was only one, with alternate middle joints.
Was La Clemenza written for Stadler, or did at least one other person own a basset?
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-04-04 08:24
Peter,
I did say that Stadler's instrument was straight, and I am aware that basset horns at that time were either curved or angled. However, I speculate that it shared many of the tonal characteristics of the basset horn, if only because -- as I stated -- most of Mozart's late writing, including compositions for his soirées at the Jaquins and for the freemasons, was for the basset horn. The drawing uncovered by Poulson is a valuable piece of evidence but cannot reveal how the instrument sounded, since this would have depended on the internal dimensions and manufacturing methods used by Theodor Lotz, the court instrument maker and fellow freemason, who collaborated with Stadler to construct the new clarinet.
I speculate however that Stadler's instrument may have sounded like a small basset horn, since it is unlikely that Mozart would have wanted to stray from the gentler and more mysterious sound of this instrument.
Another consideration is Stadler's own performance style. His reputation for softness and his apparent preference for the lower notes indicate that he may have played in the modern fashion with the reed below the mouthpiece. This is, of course speculative, but the reed-below method was starting to be adopted by players in Vienna at the time. The reed-above method does not lend itself to delicate phrasing on the basset horn, but was more suited to playing the brilliant sounding top notes on the soprano clarinet – notes that Mozart avoided throughout the concerto and in all his other writing for the instrument.
For me, the evidence, including the Andre edition, appears to point toward a gentler and more lightly articulated style rather than the long legato lines and more pronounced staccato of many modern performances of the concerto.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-04-04 08:34
Norbert,
Stadler travelled to Prague to perform in La Clemenza di Tito. He cheered Mozart with an account of the tumultuous last night of the opera, which included virtuoso roles for the clarinet and the basset horn. Since Stadler was embarking on a long tour, it is reasonable to speculate that he carried a clarinet with alternate middle joints rather than separate instruments, but I have never seen this written anywhere.
The concerto was probably performed in public for the first time in Prague on October 16 1791. By the time Stadler returned to Vienna, Mozart had, of course, long passed away.
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-04-04 09:48
I continue to be puzzled as to when it was "discovered" that the concerto is for basset rather than ordinary clarinet. MarkC refers above to "modern scholarship". Wikipedia tells us "until the mid 20th century musicologists did not know that the only version of the concerto written by Mozart's hand had not been heard since Stadler's lifetime". But Wikipedia has a photo of a simple-system basset (not stated whether A or Bb) claimed to be late nineteenth century: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Basset_clarinet_anon_Bate.jpg
Were basset clarinets really built in the late nineteenth century? Why? Just to play Clemenza?
edit.....
I'l answer my own question; this one is in Bb and probably was made to play Clemenza:
http://rsholmes.smugmug.com/gallery/1734917_bejWx#85534303
I still find it odd that, since people knew of the Bb instrument, they did not put two and two together and realise that the concerto and quintet might well have been written for a similar instrument in A. Or did they realise, and is the mid-20C discovery in fact a rediscovery of something that was already known in the C19?
Post Edited (2008-04-04 10:06)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-04-04 11:12
Beejay, in my professional experience having played a Classical basset clarinet and Classical basset horn I can assure you that they don't sound the same. The basset has a very distinct quality that the basset clarinet doesn't have. Infact the basset clarinet sounds pretty much like any boxwood clarinet, it just so happens to go to low C.
"For me, the evidence, including the Andre edition, appears to point toward a gentler and more lightly articulated style rather than the long legato lines and more pronounced staccato of many modern performances of the concerto."
I totally agree with you regarding this, and this is how I perform the concerto. I feel there needs to be an operatic quality to the complete work.
Liquorice, you are right and I remember speaking with Eric about this in 2000 when he had just made his first instrument based on the Riga programme. It was a wonderful instrument to see and hear. Eric felt though that it would be better facing away for the fact of the vent hole on the right angle joint and that it would be easier to cover and play low B with it facing away. As you say we'll never know.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-04-04 12:03
Norbert,
I am not sure there was a discovery as such. The first collection of Mozart's work had been edited in a romantic fashion in the 19th century. One of the editors indeed was Brahms. It seems to me that the decisive moment came with the publication of Dazely's article "The Original Text of Mozart's Clarinet Concerto" in The Music Review, 9.3, 1948. I think this was one of the factors that influenced Giegling in his re-edition of the concerto in the Neue Ausgabe sämmtlicher Werke. See Hess, 'Die ürsprungliche Gestalt des Klarinettenkonzertes Kv622' in the 1967 Mozart Yearbook. Dazely had conjectured through harmonic analysis that Mozart had intended an instrument descending to low C although, of course, he was unaware of later research into the basset clarinet, or that such an instrument had in fact existed.
Incidentally, there is an interesting comparison of the early and new Mozart editions by C.Eisen in Early Music, 19.4 of 1991.
Peter,
As a basset horn player myself, I am aware of the difference in sound. My speculative question is this, however: in asking Lotz to design a new instrument, was he in fact searching for a clarinet with some of the qualities of a basset horn? After all, had he wanted just a clarinet, there were plenty to choose from. And Lotz was a specialist in basset horns (Galpin Society Journal, 50, 1997)
I throw this out merely as a thought to chew on, but we should not assume that 21st-century definitions are applicable to the 18th century. For example, there is a fascinating article by A. Rice in the Galpin Society Journal, 39, 1984, comparing the clarinette d'amour and the basset horn. Was Stadler's instrument a kind of clarinette d'amour? As you say, we shall probably never know.
Lastly, I am in debt to an article by Erich Hoeprich for my earlier assertion about the reed-below style. There is also an interesting article by I. Pearson, 'The Reed-above Embouchure: Fact or Fallacy?', in the Australian Clarinet and Saxophone, 2, 1999, which I believe is available on line.
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Author: TomD
Date: 2008-04-04 14:04
beejay, you wrote:
Pointing out the advantage he held over Breitkopf & Härtel in controlling the manuscripts, Constanze told André in May 1800, 'For heaven's sake see that your editions are as correct as it is possible to make them'. ICorrespondence, p. 1472)
Please pardon my ignorance in this area but I have a few questions:
1. Was what the normal sequence of events in composing a piece? For example, did the autograph score come first?
2. What is a manuscript and/or manuscript copy, printed edition, at least as it pertained to that time period?
3. What was done by the publisher (André) in that time period to publish the piece? What did he work from?
4. What exactly did Constanze mean in her statement above? Did the publisher routinely take artistic license to make their own changes?
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-04-04 15:10
TomD,
In late 18th-century Vienna, the normal practice was to have a manuscript copy made from the autograph. Mozart had several copyists on whom he relied. I don't think there was any idea at the time of the supremacy of the autograph over the copy. Indeed, the manuscript or printed copy is sometimes thought to be a more accurate representation of a composer's intentions, since it will often include corrections and after-thoughts.
After Mozart's death, there was considerable competition to publish his collected works, and as I noted earlier, three publishers claimed to have done so. Andre, who had just taken over the family business at the age of 24, approached Constanza Mozart and her executor, the Abbe Stadler (no relation), who were also at the time in talks with Breitkopf and Härtel. Why Constanza chose Andre, despite the fact he offered a lower price, is a bit of mystery. She appears to have been weary of haggling with Breitkopf and Härtel. She also had a shrewd idea of the value of her husband's work, and probably thought Andre would do a better job at preserving the legend. Hence her admonition for him to take care with his edition. In fact the first edition of the clarinet concerto is carefully and expensively produced on thick paper. But obviously, Andre needed to recoup costs by selling as many copies as possible, which is probably why the concerto was arranged for the ordinary clarinet.
Whether Andre himself or another copyist made the arrangement, I don't know.
I think I am right in saying that a version was made for another instrument, but I cannot find the reference offhand. Could it have been the viola?
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Author: TomD
Date: 2008-04-04 15:17
Thanks beejay. Just curious, where did you come by all of this info? I find it fascinating!
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-04-04 15:59
Bejay, I understand where you are coming from with regard to Lotz's instruments. He did also make clarinets but was regarded as a fine basset horn maker. I like your idea that perhaps Stadler and Lotz may have been looking to a different concept in clarinet design and sound. The other point that needs to be looked at is the fact that Anton played second to his brother in the Kaiser's Harmonie, this we are led to believe was due to his fasination with the 'chalumeau' register. Wether it was called that then I don't know but I very much doubt it as the Chalumeau was still in use albeit in a limited capacity. Hoffmeister wrote a concerto for the instrument.
Around the time of the Andre print there was an arrangement done for flute of the whole concerto. This arrangement was transposed to G Major, the solo part may well have been wrote Mozart wrote originally albeit transposed for the flute. The Henle Urtext makes reference to this in their edition.
TomD, you should get a copy of Colin Lawson's Cambridge Campanion the the Mozart Concerto. If your are studying the work on basset or not this book, which is extremely well researched, would shine some light on the work as a whole.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: TomD
Date: 2008-04-04 16:41
Is there a popular theory regarding what happened to the autograph? Is it possibly as simple as it accidentally "got thrown out with the trash"?
It would seem that if were still in possession of an individual or even a government, that in realizing how sought after it is, the possessor would have come forward and been able to sell it for millions.
Also, beejay refers to the first edition that is on thick expensive paper.
Is that edition for the normal clarinet?
Where is that edition now?
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-04-04 16:49
Stadler pawned his case with the manuscripts apparently according to Constanze. You could always get intouch with Andre in Germany. I did when I wanted some facsimiles of some harmonie music.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-04-04 18:13
TomD
Yes, all three editions published around 1801/2 were for an ordinary five-key A clarinet. I assume the Library of Congress or other large repository would have a copy of the Andre edition -- or the others.
To answer your other question, I've researched this question quite thoroughly in the National Library of France, which is where most of my information comes from. I have cited some of my sources, but here are some others you might want to look at...
Badura-Skoda,E. & P.Weiss (tr). 1965. Textual Problems in Masterpieces of the 18th and 19th Centuries. The Musical Quarterly, 51.2
Baines, A. 1991. Woodwind Instruments and Their History (3rd edn). New York: Dover Publications
Baird, H. 1989. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart: A Guide to Research. New York: Garland Publishing
Charlton, D. 1988. Classical Clarinet Technique: Documentary Approaches. Early Music, 16.3:
Dipert, R. 1980. The Composer's Intentions; An Examination of their Relevance for Performance. The Musical Quarterly, 66.2
Edge, D. 1998. Viennese Music Copyists and the Transmission of Music in the Eighteenth Century. Revue de Musicologie, T.84c,2e
Grass, T & D. Demus. 2004. Das Bassetthorn: Seine Entwicklung und seine Musik (2nd edn). Norderstedt: Books on Demand
Hacker, A. 1969. Mozart and the Basset Horn. The Musical Times, 110.1514
Hoeprich. E. 1984. Clarinet Reed Position in the 18th Century. Early Music, 12.1
--- 1997. A Trio of Basset Horns by Theodor Lotz. The Galpin Society Journal, 50
Kingdon Ward, M. 1947. Mozart and the Clarinet. Music & Letters, 28.2
Lawson, C. 1987. The Basset Clarinet Revived. Early Music, 15.4
Martino, D. 1966. Notation in General – Articulation in Particular. Perspectives of New Music, 4.2
McColl, W. (tr) 1982 Early Review of the Mozart Concerto. The Clarinet. 9.2
Neumann, F. 1993. Dots and Strokes in Mozart. Early Music, 21.3
Newhill, P. 1999. The Basset-horn & its Music. Surbiton, Surrey: Michael Bryant
Oldman, C. 1932. Mozart and Modern Research. Proceedings of the Musical Association. 58
Pay, A. 1996. Phrasing in Contention. Early Music, 24.2.
Poulin, P. 1996. Anton Stadler's Basset Clarinet: Recent Discoveries in Riga. Journal of the American Instrument Society, 22
Prod'homme,J.-G. & T.Baker (tr). 1927. The Wife of Mozart: Constanze Weber. The Musical Quarterly, 13.3
Riedel, F. 1966. Zur Geschichte der musikalischen Quellenüberlieferung und Quellenkunde. Acta Musicologica, 38. 1
Riggs, R. 1997. Mozart's Notation of Staccato Articulation: A New Appraisal. The Journal of Musicology, 15.2
Schachter, C. 20th-Century Analysis and Mozart Performance. Early Music, 19.4
Spitzer J. & N. Zaslaw. 1986. Improvised Ornamentation in Eighteenth-Century Orchestras. American Musicological Society Journal, 39, 3
Street, O. 1916. The Clarinet and its Music. Proceedings of the Musical Association, 42nd session
Talbot, M. 1970. The Character of Musical Editing. The Musical Times, 111.1528
Temperley, N. 1985. On Editing Facsimiles for Performance. Notes. 2nd Ser. 41,4
Whewell, M. 1962. Mozart's Bassethorn Trios. The Musical Times, 103.1427:19
I could go on ... All of the above articles are available via Jstor, which you should be able to access through any good public or university library.
By the way, I second the recommendation of Colin Lawson's book. If you are really passionate about the subject, he has a much longer bibliography.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-04-04 18:23
By the way, the Andre publishing house (http://www.musik-andre.de/) offers a facsimile service. I haven't checked to see whether the clarinet concerto is there, but I would be surprised if it isn't.
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Author: TomD
Date: 2008-04-04 18:39
beejay,
1. Is it then assumed that one of the publishers transposed the original autograph (basset version) to the ordinary A clarinet version?
2. Just curious, do you know where the original Andre edition is today? You referred to the thick paper it is printed on making it sound like it is still in existence.
3. Do you think the original autograph is really lost since nobody has surfaced after all of these years trying to sell it?
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-04-04 19:49
TomD,
To answer your questions -- 1. we do not know. Any competent copyist could have done it, as could the publishers themselves 2. I would assume you can find the Andre edition in any depository library, such as the Library of Congress. If I am right in thinking you live in Connecticut, I would head for the New York Public Library. 3. I do think the autograph is lost. It would be wonderful to find it, but I am not sure it would add a great deal to our knowledge. Mozart and Stadler had been friends for a long time. Mozart, who wrote the concerto at speed after a good dinner, would, I think, have left questions of interpretation and articulation for Stadler to work out for himself. What would really be useful to find would be Stadler's performing edition.
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Author: TomD
Date: 2008-04-04 20:10
beejay,
Is is possible that Mozart himself actually wrote the two versions and that both autographs were lost?
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-04-04 23:48
TomD,
I think not. Mozart kept a meticulous record of his compositions, and would have stated had he written two versions of the same work. His only mention of the concerto was in a letter he sent to his wife on October 8, 1791 ...
"Then I told Joseph to fetch me some black coffee, with which I smoked a splendid pipe of tobacco; and then orchestrated almost the whole of Stadler's rondo. "
I find it remarkable that Stadler premiered this work little more than a week after this letter was sent. Clearly Mozart did not have a lot of time to mess around with copies, so I assume it was probably the autograph that he sent to Stadler, unless he had a copyist who could work fast. Otherwise, I am puzzled by the fact that Constanza had a copy, as did Breitkopf and Härtel. And although Stadler was said to have lost the score, he was still able to give a performance after he returned to Vienna in July, 1796. According to Pamela Poulson, Stadler performed the concerto at least 13 times during the time he was away from Vienna, so he may have had copies made along the way. This all really is a big mystery, and you are quite right to be puzzled about it.
Mozart and Constanze had earlier been with Stadler in Prague for performances of La Clemenza di Tito, which he wrote for the coronation of Emperor Leopold II as King of Bohemia. It may well be that he and Stadler had discussed the concert planned for October 16, and that Mozart had written out parts of the concerto already. We know that he had sketched out the first movement for a basset horn in G (the Winterthur fragment). When he returned to Vienna, he was of course busy with the Magic Flute, and he must have had to finish off the concerto in a real hurry.
If you are interested in this period, try to get hold of a book called 'Mozart's Last Year' by H.C. Robbins Landon .
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-04-04 23:52
I just noted a contradiction. I wrote earlier that Mozart finished the concerto after a good dinner. I checked the correspondence, and in fact the dinner (cutlets) came later. So the concerto (the rondo at least) was fuelled by nothing more than coffee and tobacco!
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