 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-09-26 23:23
I recorded myself on my little brother's MP3 as my iPod cannot record and I noticed one thing in my tone. It seems to be a little too bright. I've tried recently(past 4months) to change my throat voicing etc to get a darker tone but it's just not happening. I see no progress. I'm starting to believe it's my mouthpiece. I play a Selmer C85-120(tip opening 1.20mm) and the Selmer website claimed these to be at 19mm long. The reed is a V12 3.5 and the ligature is a Rovner Dark. Would switching to a more closed mouthpiece say 1.04mm and 17.5mm long help out? I played on a 5RV for sometime last year and that's when I noticed my sound was a little darker and not as hard to control.
EDIT-
I'm not sure if the piece I'm playing makes any difference or not as whenever I listen to some recordings I feel like the piece in general is bright. I'm playing the Weber Concertino 1/2nd mvmnts
Post Edited (2007-09-26 23:37)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-09-26 23:31
You sure this isn't just the recording? Do others, recorded under the same conditions, sound darker?
--
Ben
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-09-26 23:35
Ben,
My middle school band directors husband(who is also a band director) made a comment towards me last year saying my sound was too bright but then I was playing on mitchell luries and a selmer ligature. I think the MP3 quality will make it worse but I have no one to really record but my little brother who is a beginning trumpet player.
Post Edited (2007-09-26 23:38)
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-09-26 23:40
hans wrote:
> Why did you stop playing the 5RV?
>
> Hans
I payed $5 for the 5RV from a girl who quit but my friend who his clarinet stolen and was using mine was using the stock buffet mouthpiece and I said here and I gave it to him. I figured I would get another one but I just put it off and instead used the money on different things.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2007-09-27 00:03
The question of sound...an intangible.
It's possible that by recording yourself in MP3 format, the compression is affecting how your tone sounds. You might try using your computer, if you have a decent sound card and decent microphone in an uncompressed format. You can burn a CD from this file, and you might like the results better.
That is a fairly open mouthpiece, so it might tend towards bright. Don't forget that this is often a matter of personal preference. If you like it, and the commentary that you've received is rare, you probably don't need to be so concerned.
I would agree with the Weber Concertino requiring some brilliance.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: hans
Date: 2007-09-27 02:47
SVClarinet09,
My Selmer Recital came with a c85/120 (in 1988) and it never felt like it was playing quite as good as it could be until I bought a 5RV on the advice of an elderly clarinet/sax player and repair tech. around 10 or so years ago.
Since then I've experimented and gotten excited about new mouthpieces, but always returned eventually to the 5RV. It's a 2-tone and doesn't even look nice with my clarinet, but that's not the part that matters.
Could you borrow your old 5RV back from your friend to compare it once more to your c85/120? Maybe you will end up buying another one....
Hans
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-09-27 03:28
to test the effects of the recording do this. record anything, ex. your mom/dads/brother's voice. then listen. does the real voice sound darker/brighter than the recorded one?
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2007-09-27 03:36
So what's wrong with "bright"? And what's "too bright"?
Do you truly dislike your sound, or are you a victim of the myth that to sound well and to be one of the elect, your sound must be dark chocolate fudge instead of strawberry shortcake?
B.
(Who likes "bright," and is sick to death of even hearing the words "dark sound.")
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Author: Neal Raskin
Date: 2007-09-27 06:03
Melvin,
What horn are you playing on? Some instruments are just designed to be brighter than others. Even within a model, instruments can be radically different. I am in the process of purchasing a R13 because my current Leblanc Concerto II has limitations. The horn is fantastic when it comes to ease of play, evenness, and intonation; but what those horns lack is the ability to create. You would be stuck with that one sound that works and that is it. If you want to expand your musical horizons and create something dark, and round and different from the bright sweet sound, it could be the instrument.
Of course that would be that last thing you want to change... So my suggestion to you would be to try a better recorder in a space that won't suck up your sound. If you play in a very very dry carpeted room, it may be hard to get a recording of what you would sound like in a hall etc. So make sure the space works. Then make sure the recorder you are using is high quality. Using your computer and an actual microphone set up would probably be best. The quality that a small handheld recorder can produce, while technology is advancing, is still not comparable to using an actual instrumental microphone and a good recorder/computer. Your school may have some equipment available for use. Ask around.
So now, after eliminating exterior variables (hey, this is like a science experiment, with the control group, and the variables...maybe i'm in the wrong profession. ;-) ie the space and recorder, you can move ahead to your actual setup/embouchure/voicing/instrument issues.
The process of finding out why your sound is bright will be very difficult. You will just have to try different combinations of mp and reeds. The ligature, while a high quality ligature will increase your tone potential, you probably won't be able to tell the difference between the big names BG, Rovner, Vandoren (speculation). So try different reed combos, maybe try out a Vandoren M13 Lyre. Lots of professionals use that mp and i do as well. I use that mp with Traditional Vandoren reeds. And that mp has given me a very full broad tone on my already bright clarinet.
So try getting a good space, a good recording device. Then putz around with different mouthpieces and reeds until you find a combination that you think is the one for that horn. And if at that point, you are still thinking the sound is too bright, it is the horn.
You may want to consult with a clarinet professor in your area, your ISP places you in Duluth so you could probably call the clarinet prof over there and ask him/her for some suggestions.
I hope I have been of some help to you!
Best wishes, good luck!
Neal Raskin
Concordia College
Moorhead, MN
www.cord.edu
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-09-27 11:33
Christopher Nichols wrote,
>>It's possible that by recording yourself in MP3 format, the compression is affecting how your tone sounds. You might try using your computer, if you have a decent sound card and decent microphone in an uncompressed format. You can burn a CD from this file, and you might like the results better.
>>
Good point. I use the Sibelius note-processing software and have found that what I write sounds different (thinner, without all the partials) in an MP3 format even when I play it back on the same computer I used to compose the piece.
(Maybe I should re-write that sentence in past-tense, since my older version of Sibelius doesn't work on my new computer with Vista. "Favorite Places" doesn't work, either; and I can receive e-mail but not send it. My Palm Pilot won't load. Good old reliable WordPerfect's gone wonky. After a full month of reading instructions and getting "Help"--translation: b.s.--online, I don't have *any* software running completely right. I've concluded that Microsoft outsourced product development of this defective operating system to Beelzebub's Basement Workshop. Grrrrrrr....)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-09-27 12:25
> doesn't work (...) with Vista
It's like everywhere - newer ain't necessarily better.
There - I did it again. I sound like my parents. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-09-28 03:12
I play on a Selmer Paris Omega/Selmer C85-120/Vandoren V12 3.5/Rovner Dark
I'm going to ask my director if I can borrow some of his equipment, if not, my real good friend has alot of equipment that he uses to record his acoustic songs.
I asked around today and I really don't have anyone at my school to compare my tone with.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-09-28 04:13
> ** "I play on a Selmer Paris Omega/Selmer C85-120/Vandoren V12 3.5/Rovner Dark" ** <
I tried the same set-up and sounded pretty damn good. I'm sure your recorder (and recording technique) is to blame for this.
A clarinet tone color is influenced the most by the baffle of your mouthpiece. The tip opening or a facing has very little to do with it.
Vytas Krass
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Professional clarinet technician
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-09-29 14:45
Well I've done my research and apparently it's the microphone. I have recordings from previous state contests/festivals/clinics etc and it definitely does not sound like a bright sound. I also asked the guy who I occasionally take lessons, I think his doctorate is from Manhattan, and he thinks I shouldn't worry about my tone that he wouldn't consider it to be bright. I was also given some advice from my friend who is a trumpet player and he told me to use more warm air and I definitely saw an improvement after doing that. He said something about opening your throat and using more warm air. It also helped me drop my pitch cus my pitch is consistently sharp. Do any of you guys know the proper way to do this whole warm air thing?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-09-29 16:14
If you are trying to open your throat to let more air pass through and to the instrument, I have always found cthat concentrating on the sound of a "long O" works nicely. For me, I also try to imagine the throat and its opening just widening up a bit and making sure to keep in mind an image or a larg-bore, found pipe.
It sounds silly, but it seems to work for me.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2007-09-29 16:14)
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-10-01 16:01
Good warm air/open throat ideas. About the mouthpiece, you got it for a steal at $5.00, and then gave it away? Used 5RVs often go for about $40 on auction sites. Not saying that's to blame for dark or bright, just saying it's worth more money than you or your friends seem to think.
Keep playing.
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