 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: blazian
Date: 2007-03-13 19:35
Does anyone know what happens to tone when resonator pads are used on a clarinet (esp. bass)?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-03-13 20:27
Nothing, in my opinion -- but Vytas will probably disagree. First of all, soprano clarinet pads are too small to have resonators, with the largest ones (16-17mm) at the bottom possibly having small rivets or very small resonators -- but such pads are generally made for saxes and are too thick for use on clarinets. I've used rivet and plain leather pads interchangeably on the larger clarinets, depending on what's more available in the proper thickness, and have not been able to detect any tonal differences with my potato-stuffed ears.
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-03-13 22:53
It's interesting that the Eaton soprano clarinet now comes with resonator pads as stock. Too bad the foam rubber pads are so bad that nothing can be correlated to regular pads (Eaton used to have leather pads) and improving the tone.
http://www.saxmaniax.com/galleryclar/Eaton/EatonPads01.jpg
http://www.saxmaniax.com/galleryclar/EatonInt.htm
I think the Eaton "mirror" resonators were used to try and undeaden the sound from the spongy air-pocket filled pads.
I have read where in the old (?) days they used to put resonators larger pads which was always documented as cork pads.
But say resonators on leather pads work? I'd have to test it but I'd side on the probably not side (soprano clarinet). If they were mini-domed resonators I would think they may interfere too much with the tonehole and venting. So only flat resos would really work.
But on bass I really it's an interesting concept of which I'l sway to the so minute a difference that it may not be detectable. But then, I've never tried either .. but it would make an interesting experiement BUT a bass would have to be repadded/setup /play tested-recorded before repadding/setup /playtesting again for a proper comparison.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-14 01:35
Resonator or riveted pads only keep the centre of the pad from bulging into the toneholes.
Selmer bass clarinets are designed with thick sets so sax pads can be used, though Leblanc use thin pads (ie. contrabassoon-type pads) and the same with Buffet - without resonators or rivets. Large diameter pads do really need the centre to be riveted to avoid the leather bulging, but a stitch in the centre of the pad can also prevent the pad from bulging in the middle.
Buffet Elite clarinets were one of the first production clarinets to use screw in resonators on the large pads, and Leblanc Opus use them as well - though the pads are seated in the normal way (ideally with shellac, though they do use hot glue for some reason!) and the resonator is screwed in place.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Dano
Date: 2007-03-14 03:29
The Selmer St. Louis comes with resonator pads on the lower joint. I thought they were pretty nice. At first I did not hear the difference but as time passed and I compared, I found them to make the lower notes pop out a little more than on other clarinets. I would guess that on a bass it would be worth a try.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2007-03-14 04:48
The fine Bettony Silva Bet full Boehm clarinet I have is equipped with resonator pads from the factory.
One player, when he saw the articles on resonator pads for the bass clarinet was so inscensed that he ripped up his copy of the publication that had the articles.
If one note on a bass clarinet is particularly dull but in tune and the pad cup is open, one can add a single resonator pad to that pad to try to equalize the response of the instrument.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-03-14 07:24
One player, when he saw the articles on resonator pads for the bass clarinet was so inscensed that he ripped up his copy of the publication that had the articles.
Seriously people have drama issues.....
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-14 11:39
Old Louis, B&H and Howarth oboes and cors anglais had screw in resonators on the large pads, they were like the old style flute resonators that had a threaded hole in the centre and fitted onto a screw soldered into the pad cup (installed using the octave bush tool). But most have had this screw removed or unsoldered at some point during a previous overhaul.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-14 12:53
> a screw soldered into the pad cup
Wot? No superglue? ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
Were the pads glued-in regardless of that screw or did the resonator double as a pad retainer?
--
Ben
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-03-14 13:02
>>Large diameter pads do really need the centre to be riveted to avoid the leather bulging, but a stitch in the centre of the pad can also prevent the pad from bulging in the middle.
>>
That's the conventional wisdom, but it isn't true. I own a Buescher "True-Tone" C-melody saxophone (the size in between a tenor and an alto), made between 1915-1920, that's in completely original condition. I haven't touched it. It's still got its original white kid pads. No resonators. No stitches. No bulges.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2007-03-14 13:07)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-14 13:55
Has it got pads with metal rings in them? These were like drum heads in that the leather was in tension so the middles didn't bulge. I've got an old Wurlitzer (USA) C melody with the original pads (without the rings) which have a stitch in the centre.
"Were the pads glued-in regardless of that screw or did the resonator double as a pad retainer?" Some were and some weren't - I suppose it depended on the finisher and what they found to work best for them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-03-14 17:12
Chris P, I believe you're referring to Conn "Reso-Pads" -- these had a metal ring surrounding the rim of the pad, with the leather kept in tension. I suspect these were proprietary to Conn and therefore it would be unlikely (but not impossible!) that their competitor Buescher would have been using them.
I suppose if the pad leather were bonded to the felt underneath, then it would not be likely to bulge even without some sort of center fastening (be it stitching, a rivet, or a resonator).
Just like the endless discussions about the effects of clarinet materials on tone quality, I doubt that we'll ever reach a consensus on the effects (if any) of resonators. But it's fun to talk about anyway........
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2007-03-19 04:13
I have seen Silva Bets and maybe Silver Kings (metal clarinets) that were designed for riveted pads. I just punch a hole in white kit pads. I don't think it made a difference in tone, but then the metal area is very small on a 16 mm pad -- maybe 10% to 20% of area.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-03-19 11:06
The white kid pads on my old Buescher "True-Tone" sax don't have stitches or metal on them anywhere on the surfaces. I don't know how they're constructed on the back, because I haven't removed any, but I'll be curious to take a look if/when some of the glue fails. The surfaces look just like those of plain, white kid clarinet pads. They're pulled taut and they feel fairly firm, but they're not as hard to the touch as brown leather or resonator pads. Ferree's still sells plain white kid pads for saxphones, btw, if anybody wants to go back to the softer, mellower tone of the Roaring Twenties dance bands.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-03-19 14:15
Lelia, I'd venture that the 'softer, mellower tone' of the 20s had a lot more to do with the very large-chamber, extremely close-facing mouthpieces they all used back then, rather than the type of pads on their saxes!
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