 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2006-11-17 21:51
Today a student came to me for help with orchestral excerpts. He played the scherzo from Mendelssohn's 'Midsummer Night's Dream'. I was immediately struck by the lack of clarity in his tonguing. With a bit of questioning I realised that he is doing what I think is called "anchor tonguing", i.e. the tip of his tongue rests behind his lower teeth and he tongues quite far back on the tongue. A little bit more investigation revealed that the "string" on the under side of his tongue connects almost at the tip. He can't stick his tongue out further than his lips, and can't reach the tip of the reed with the tip of his tongue.
-So "anchor tonguing" is physically the only way that he can tongue.
He has no problem tonguing quickly (he can tongue around quarter= 150!), and he can tongue heavily and percussively. But when he tries to tongue lightly (as in the Mendelssohn excerpt) the result is an unclear "tha" type sound. When I try to imagine the angle of his tongue inside his mouth and the way it connects with the reed, then I think that a lot of flesh from the tongue comes into contact with the reed, which is probably what causes this "tha" sound. I notice that he plays with the angle of the clarinet quite high, and also dips his head, which is probably an unconcious way of trying to make a greater angle between tongue and reed, thus making less contact with the reed.
Basically I am at a bit of a loss, because I don't tongue this way and don't know how to help him. I will experiment a bit with "anchor tonguing" myself and see what I can come up with.
I read several previous posts on this topic, and see that a lot of people disagree with this method of tonguing. But I must again stress that this player physically cannot tongue "tip to tip". I also gather from previous posts that there are players out there who successfully manage to anchor tongue. (Alphie?) Perhaps you can give me some advice for how this student can get a clearer light style of articulation?
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-11-17 22:07
Mitchell Lurie anchor tongued. He was able to do it with clarity and finesse. Bonade had him play a C maj. scale two octaves when Lurie brought it up in a lesson and Bonade said it sounded beautiful to him! And needless to say, Bonade was more than a little hard to please.
I think that there must be different types of anchor tonguing - or different attributes inherent in a players physiology that allows them to get away with it and still have at their disposal clarity, variety, and control of their articulation.
In your student's case, perhaps the angle of the clarinet may be key since it sounds as if he doesn't have all that much physical flexibility within the oral cavity itself. It's always difficult to diagnose these things in person let alone long distance!
Gregory Smith
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Author: Ed
Date: 2006-11-17 22:38
Is it possible for whatever portion of the tongue that the student uses to only touch the tip of the reed? I am thinking that in this way, even if he is using a less than optimal portion of the tongue, he can still work delicately along the edge of the reed. It may require some manipulation of angle or some other adjustment to make it work.
Good luck!
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Author: YoungFlarinet
Date: 2006-11-18 06:17
There is a very minor surgery that my little brother had where they simply clipped the extra skin under the tongue. But I really doubt it's necessary to have surgery for this.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2006-11-18 11:57
I have been playing clarinet since 1993, often entire days on weekends (or until my lip is so sore I am forced stop). I have never been able to touch my tongue to the tip of the reed. I simply cannot teach myself this. Proof that a teacher is, ultimately, required. I play staccato by stopping and starting air. I believe this is considered the clarinet equivalent of cheating on your taxes.
B.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: jmcgann
Date: 2006-11-18 12:34
Quote:
I believe this is considered the clarinet equivalent of cheating on your taxes.
You mean everybody does it?
www.johnmcgann.com
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2006-11-18 13:47
I have trouble touching the tip of the reed with the tip of my tongue. I don't do complete anchor tonguing, but close to it.
Increasing the angle of the clarinet definitely helps, but this causes embouchre
problems, so a compromise must be reached.
Something else that has helped me, is to play with the mouthpiece off center.
It seems like it's easier to play lighter with the edge of my tongue contacting the reed rather than the center of the tongue. My teeth are crooked so I'm not sure if this would work for others.
I've worked long hours with a metronome increasing my tounging speed. I'm still far from quick, but I've definitely improved.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-11-18 14:01
I, as many others have, anchor tongued for years, and fixed it much later than necessary. One summer during my college years that I didn't have much playing to do, I simply stopped, and started trying to do it right. After about a week of practice, I simply could not anchor tongue any longer, it felt weird!
4 years have passed and I'm still trying to get it it perfect. Using recordings and teachers criticisms over the years, the articulation and sound quality have improved greatly. I also feel that now I can control the airspeed much more efficiently than before, which results in a more brilliant sound that projects better.
I find the Mendelssohn Scherzo, Beethoven 6, and other such excerpts much easier to execute.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: YoungFlarinet
Date: 2006-11-18 17:36
I too use the side of the tongue to tongue lighter. I don't anchor tongue, and I have straight teeth (thanks to braces) so I'm guessing that it would work for most people. The only thing I do differently is I keep the clarinet straight in my mouth while just moving my tongue to the side and make it touch where the gums meet the teeth right beside the mouthpiece so that it is barely touching the edge of the reed. It also is farther down the reed which doesn't stop the vibration as much making it a softer tongue.
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Author: D
Date: 2006-11-18 20:27
How far towards the mouthpiece can your student reach? Is there a mouthpiece out there that would intrude far enough into the mouth to allow a few more options for him. Perhaps less of the flesh would meet the reed if the mouthpiece was further in.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2006-11-19 21:11
Liquorice, I don't "anchor tongue" myself. What I've had strong opinions about in the past is when some teachers have rigid ideas about on how to tongue and what mouth position their students should have. Most teachers in the US seem to favor tip-to-tip. I mean that this is ONE way to tongue. Even if it's the most common way to tongue in the US there are other ways to tongue and that it's nothing to make an issue out of. Every individual clarinetist or wind musician for that matter have to find a way that works for them. Each individual have to find a way to make the best with what they've got.
Your student maybe don't have another option but to "anchor tongue". To me, logically, it seems like he's doing the right thing pointing the clarinet away from the body to reduce the amount of flesh from the reed. Here, a flat and pointed embouchure(!) can be a great help. Can he say "tea" or "trumpet" with clarity, or does it sound like "thee" and "thyumpet"? Try "trrraverso" with Italian accent. If he can do that there is hope. Have him practicing Italian style rolling RRRs. That's the same we use in Swedish. Maybe that is why I never heard of "anchor tonguing" before I joined this Bboard.
The most important thing though is that he always listens carefully to his own attack and tries to shape it the way he wants it to sound. Speed is not a problem here. I don't think “anchor tonguing” is the big problem. The tongue only stops the air flow. Something happens when he moves the tongue away from the reed. It can be a spastic tension or anything, or maybe he's just afraid that it shall sound exactly the way it does. Maybe he only needs a mouthpiece with a thinner tip rail for more clarity!?
Good luck,
Alphie
Post Edited (2006-11-19 21:31)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-11-19 21:24
Alphie,
you touched a subject rarely discussed - language and embouchure. Language-wise, english speaking people use their tongue differently than eg german-speaking people. You mention the "R" style (italian vs texan), I might add the "dh" style (thee vs tea) - it inevitable affects the way we're moving our tongues, and it might indeed affect the style being teached (like that smiling flat chin thing). This is a mere observation, not a pro/con discussion...
The "light touch" Liquorice is talking about - may it have to do with how "wet" the tongue is? A wet tongue sticks better and stops the reed differently than a dry tongue. Juicy and heavily and fast isn't the main problem here, but light tongueing might result in a squishy effect...just a thought as I observe that in my own playing.
--
Ben
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