 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: diz
Date: 2006-10-10 01:25
Having just finished listening to a concert broadcast (originally) in Stockholm featuring the Clarinet Concert #2 of Spohr ... I've been pondering why these beautiful (shallow?) works are just not ever heard.
Technically they are, obviously not easy and musically they are painted with Spohr's forward looking harmonies (somewhat reminding me of CM von Weber in language).
Anyone ever heard any of them in a symphony concert live??
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-10-10 01:54
Spohr was quite popular as both a conductor, violin virtuoso, teacher and composer during his lifetime, but his music lost favor with the public in the late 19th century, when compared to the newer orchestral sounds of Tchaikovsky, Wagner, Strauss, etc... his music seemed "old fashioned."
His music has never fully recovered.
BTW - A bit of trivia: Spohr was one of the tallest of the classical composers - 6 feet 7 inches ...GBK
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Author: diz
Date: 2006-10-10 06:32
Glenn ... as always you're an abyss of knowledge.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-10-10 09:45
the 2nd clarinet concerto is the most musical of the concerti (though each of the others has fabulous moments, they each have what i'd consider a "weak" movement). I've played/heard other pieces by Spohr (most reccently played in the orchestra for his concerto for string quartet) and most of them were well crafted but not inspiring (the concerto for string quartet being really really the bottom of the pile).
the 2nd concerto, however, is a great work
donald
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-10-10 14:05
The Spohr Concerto #2 is, I think, the most difficult of the four. There are spots in the first movement that jump all over the place at warp speed. James Gholson, now the prof at the University of Memphis, played several amazing performances of it at Interlochen many years ago.
Concerto #1 is very fine. Gervase de Peyer played it and made an outstanding recording near the beginning of his career. It was also the contest piece at the Clarinet Congress a number of years ago.
Concerto #3 is, for me, the best of them. Stanley Drucker loves it and has performed it frequently.
Concerto #4 is for clarinet in A and is, to my mind, the least effective one. I've heard it live once many years ago.
Avoid the Leister recordings. He is technically perfect, but sleepwalks through them. A Leister student told me that he doesn't like them and did it only for the money. The Ottensamer recordings are good, and the Denman recordings (if you can find them) are even better.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-10-10 15:29
Archivmusic lists numerous available CDs of all four Spohr clarinet concertos.
For all you Emma Johnson fans her delightful recording of the first 3 is available.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2006-10-10 15:45
I heard an old recording of Antony Pay playing the numbers 1 and 2. FANTASTIC playing! He played them on modern instruments. Has anybody ever recorded them on period instruments?
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2006-10-10 19:48
Yes, Colin Lawson has recorded the 1st with the Hanover Band alongside the Weber Concerti. I have the CD and it's pretty good. The last movement is perhaps a little on the slow side considering it's marked Vivace.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Chris Horril
Date: 2006-10-10 19:57
There is also hyperion CD of Michael Collins playing the 1st and 2nd and a couple of lollipops. Beautifully played especially the slow movements of the concertos
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-10-10 21:20
donald wrote:
>> the 2nd clarinet concerto is the most musical of the concerti (though each of the others has fabulous moments, they each have what i'd consider a "weak" movement). >>
What's the "weak" movement in the first concerto, then?
Tony
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2006-10-10 21:45
Tony did you ever consider recording the Spohr concertos with the OAE at around the time you did the Weber and Crusell concerti?
Peter Cigleris
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Author: diz
Date: 2006-10-10 22:29
I think Spohr suffered from being at the time in high romanticism when more forward thinkers were pushing their stuff (Wagner for example). But I have to agree with Donald about the concerto for string quartet, it is rather dull. I own recordings of several of his symphonies, one of them involving the seasons (I think) is extremely attractive. His opera Jessonda is also really beautiful and tuneful.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-10-11 10:16
Can't say as I've ever been a fan of music that is praised mainly because it's technically complicated. I'm sure I'm missing something but at least have started listening to Mahler.
Bob Draznik
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-10-11 11:08
Mr Pay sir, i fear i am about to incite your wrath, however i don't consider the slow mvt of the first concerto to be particuarly interesting, and compared to audience members i have talked to at performances of this concerto, my high opinion of the other two movements is generous (not being famous or important, maybe i don't get to meet sycophants? just a theory)
now i think of it though, the 3rd concerto is a pretty strong work, but i'm not sure about that 1st mvt.....
just my opinion, and an impression gained from audience feedback rather unscientifically collected.
donald
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-10-11 11:37
The Spohr concertos are wonderful technical excercises. When I need an alternative to Baermann, I turn to Spohr.
I wouldn't spend money to see Spohr performed in concert, but would gladly accept payment to help fill a hall.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-10-11 15:56
donald wrote:
>> Mr Pay sir, i fear i am about to incite your wrath, however i don't consider the slow mvt of the first concerto to be particuarly interesting>>
Well, I don't know about wrath, but I certainly disagree with you. I think it's simple and perfect. It has all the innocence of young love -- or perhaps the bittersweetness of an old love remembered.
Spohr gives it a most original texture by omitting the violas from the scoring, and finds a magically elided return of the first theme via its surprise entry over a descending bass. The dissonant Gb in the final clarinet melisma can be almost unbearably poignant. It's the best 19th century equivalent of a hit single that I know.
In a children's concert I once did in Sweden, I chose to play just this movement to show how the clarinet could take the part of the singer of a simple song. I left the Umea Sinfonietta on the stage and wandered through the auditorium like a singer with a roving mike, playing little bits to individual children. They loved it.
>> and compared to audience members i have talked to at performances of this concerto, my high opinion of the other two movements is generous>>
You mean, you liked it more than some.
(not being famous or important, maybe i don't get to meet sycophants? just
a theory)
You know what you can do with your theory, don't you?
Tony
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-10-11 17:09
So wonderful to see Tony Pay posting. I was worried you'd left the board or something, it's been awhile since I've read something of yours. Perhaps I've been reading the wrong threads. I think people dismiss Spohr and some other composers as less significant because of occasional things that just don't seem to fit at the first listening or reading... Well, why isn't it worth your time to figure out a solution to the problem? Just because it doesn't say Mozart on it doesn't mean it holds less value. I love the first Spohr Concerto, and I myself used to think that some of the transitionary material in the first movement was weak. I later concluded that they helped with the coherence of the movement by referring back to the opening theme. Also, as clarinetists, I think we're sometimes subject to focusing too heavily on the solo clarinet part, and ignoring much of what the orchestra is doing. That's an error of ignorance. Mr. Pay just pointed out something significant about the orchestration of the second movement of the first Spohr concerto, and this is a great example of the things that we should consider when preparing, performing, or discussing music.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Mark G. Simon
Date: 2006-10-11 18:04
My favorite moment in all of the four Spohr concertos is in the opening tutti of no. 4. It's in the transition to G major (2nd theme). With an augmented 6th chord over a dominant pedal, you have D flat, E flat, and D natural all sounding at the same time, followed by some lovely chromatic weaving around the same D pedal. After that, the rest of the concerto sounds routine.
Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana--Mediocrates (2nd cent. BC)
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2006-10-12 13:32
I too enjoy the Spohr concertos. Most Clarinetists enjoy the technical challenges (when they sucessfully come off). None Clarinetists seem to enjoy these works far less. Compared to other composers around the same time the key changes are rather blatent eg Concerto No 1 Dminor-Dmajor in the first mvt. They seen to have a little less thematic invetion than earlier composers ie Mozart conc and quintet. so in that regard could be considered similar to Weber. Is Spohr the poor mans Weber?
I remember performing Concerto no1 at university 20 years ago. It was around the time of Tony Pays brilliant recording with the London sinfonietta which for me still sets the standard for Clarinet playing.
I still cringe when I think of some of the disasters that befell me in that concert.
The six German songs are very accessable. Performed with Clar,piano and soprano. When you perform all of them the audience usually seems to feel that you could cut two of them. They are all so beautiful I hate doing that.
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Author: diz
Date: 2006-10-13 05:58
Phurster - you're a Sydneysider still?
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2006-10-13 08:00
Actually I reside in Melbourne. I can’t even claim to be Aussie as I was born in England and still have a UK passport….sorry.
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-10-13 12:28
hey Tony, no i don't know what i can do with my theory, why don't you tell me?
anyway, it's not really a theory. i certainly meet fewer sycophants than any of the conductors or soloists who come through, there's NO DOUBT about it. But i'll take a look at that movement and give it another chance- maybe i've just heard unimaginative performances of it and have spent too much time sitting around with string players (who have such an abundance of high quality Romantic era music that the Spohr and Crussel Concerti wouldn't even get in the top 50). Given that i like Spohr, changing my mind on this one shouldn't be too much of a challenge.
donald
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