 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jamie
Date: 2006-07-26 16:27
Good morning woodwinds enthusiasts!
You have all heard of soccer moms? Well, I'm a clarinet/music mom. I have a 13 year old daughter who is very talented - specifically in Clarinet. She is currently playing a VERY GOOD Selmer Signet Special. Her current instrument, by an expert's opinion, happens to be a decent instrument for that make and model.
I would like any information on an instrument I purchased recently. I was at the Goodwill Store in my area and noticed a clarinet case in a canvas bag. The canvas bag was actually the outer covering for the hard case within. The clarinet was a Henri Selmer Paris clarinet manufactured in 1946 as indicated by the Mxxxx serial number.
The instrument was brought to the local clarinet repairman (and player, also). The wood is in excellent shape - no dings, cracks, or dents. My daughter played the chromatic scale and all keys work as expected. It will need the standard care: oiling, cleaning, recorking, polishing and adjustment.
The bottom line is that I paid under $40.00 US for this clarinet and I am wondering if I made an excellent decision or an abyssmal one??? Any opinions on this Henri Selmer Paris Clarinet?
My daughter made the local youth orchestra in 7th grade instead of 9th grade and is playing advanced high school level music now. Any opinions on whether this instrument would be of higher quality than her current instrument?
Thanks for any opinions, Jamie
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2006-07-26 17:16
You probably have a Centered Tone model (look for a logo). They are large bore and were very popular during the golden age of the big bands. These are excellent clarinets and go for $350-500 on ebay.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-07-26 17:26
> "as indicated by the Mxxxx serial number." <
Please give us at least two fist numbers (like M45XX). The low s/n M series clarinets were BT's but the higher s/n were not. In any case it looks like you have a pro Selmer model. I'm not sure if it's an ideal clarinet for a 13 years old, but it's definitely good clarinet for Jazz.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-07-26 17:29
You probably have a Centered Tone model (look for a logo).
________________________________________________
NO! ITS NOT A "CT"!
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: jamie
Date: 2006-07-26 17:35
Dear Vytas:
The serial number is M 92XX. It is one of the higher numbers I believe. Jamie
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-07-26 17:49
> "The serial number is M 92XX. It is one of the higher numbers I believe." <
You're right! These are simply called M-series professional clarinets. You can tell them apart by the register tube, which has a half ball shape with a two holes in it for a special key to unscrew this tube. This type of tubes were installed ONLY on the higher s/n M and on some N-series clarinets.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-07-26 18:43
Good consultation. Vytas. Having had several CT's, now only the best P series CT [1956], stencilled as such, isnt it more likely its a later Model 9 [1946]? I'd suggest measuring the UJ bore sizes, if its 15.0 mm, I'd agree on an early CT, I suspect this was a marketing stencil for us gullable [sp?], name-conscious Amer's. No matter what, its a great find, have it restored, please. By any chance does the "Globe " logo [UJ and bell] have "wings" on it and have an S, overprinted by an H, if so it may be Sel's extra special cl [said to be tuned by H S himself {did he live this long?}]. I have a 1929 in A, definitely the best A I've ever played ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2006-07-26 19:00
M series Selmers tend to auction for $400-550 on the big site usually with what is called a full overhaul but one which may not be by a top professional restorer. Full overhauls on clarinets like this tend to be about $250-$350 by highly reputable folks who can maximize the quality of the instrument; one I work with will guarantee his overhauls for a year, readjusting and fixing anything you do not think is perfect. So, if you purchased a good example of an M and have it overhauled by one of the people who sponsor this board or others whose overhauls are well reviewed here, at the minimum you should be able to get your money back. If you pay for a complete overhaul and have a great horn, you are way ahead; if not you probably get your money back, maybe with a small profit after spending a few hours auctioning it. Either way, you may teach your 14 year old what it means to restore a classic item, rather than automatically paying $2000 more for a new one that may not be as good. George
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Author: jamie
Date: 2006-07-26 20:27
Dear Mark and Don,
We are currently having it restored. The repairman is a professional jazz musician himself. He had disassembled the clarinet and was starting the restoration when I last talked to him. I noted just a hint of anticipation for restoring this clarinet.
Rather than having the keys replated, we are waiting to see what a good polishing would do. The idea is to restore it as closely to it's heritage. The corks and pads are being replaced as we speak. I will find out what the emblem looks like on the front of the clarinet during her next lesson so keep checking back.
I will measure the dimensions too - as you have suggested. I was willing to take a chance on the clarinet for $37.00. Even with the cost of restoration, I am hoping for a better than average clarinet.
By the way, my daughter is a SERIOUS musician and meticulously swabs, polishes, oils and cares for her clarinet. I anticipate that she will not only treasure, but also care for the instrument as she should.
Thanks for the information, Jamie
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Author: jamie
Date: 2006-07-26 20:31
Dear Vytas and jnk,
Rachel compared the internal size of the bore just by eyeballing it. The Henri Selmer Paris is smaller in diameter than her Selmer Signet. Even though she has asthma, she still played the Selmer Paris with ease. The Henri Selmer sounds just beautiful - even before any restoration. Jamie
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-07-26 21:17
"The bottom line is that I paid under $40.00 US for this clarinet and I am wondering if I made an excellent decision or an abyssmal one??? Any opinions on this Henri Selmer Paris Clarinet?"
$40.00? You have a winner there! In good condition this clarinet is worth at least ten times this amount to the right buyer. This clarinet will also last your daughter for years to come if looked after well, and is probably better than a lot of clarinets currently on the market. You won't find anything like this to buy new.
Measure the bore with vernier calipers to be sure of the diameter (measure the lower tenon of the top joint as this is the narrowest measurement and the one manufacturers refer to) - I believe the Selmer (Paris) will be much larger than the Selmer Signet - and large toneholes as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-07-26 22:09
jnk,
The first M-series clarinets have BT bore with slightly different tone hole placement and keywork. Also M-series have better tuning than BT but BT has bigger sound IMO.
M-series-definitely a large bore instruments.
The bore on the latter M and N series instruments were constantly evolving until it became known as "Centered Tone" model/bore (around s/n N7500)
____________________________________________________________
Don,
M-series Selmer clarinets have modern Selmer logo. "Wings" appeared on the several decades older (than M-series) Selmer clarinets.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2006-08-14 20:47)
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Author: Fred
Date: 2006-07-26 23:31
I'm glad you're not having the keys replated . . . since they were probably never plated to begin with. They were probably unplated nickel silver (not a very descriptive or accurate term), and will be at their best with just polishing.
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Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2006-07-27 02:42
For $40, I'd buy ANY clarinet. Actually, that's kind of funny because I had a buddy of mine tell me that there was this really old green colored clarinet at the local goodwill for $10 that I was going to buy. Even if it was complete crap, who cares? For $10, that's a pretty cool piece of artwork!
No, but seriously, it sounds like you got a bargain. I'm glad you're restoring it. I found an old Conn-Selmer clarinet made in the 1940s used in the Army band by my Great Uncle - an Albert system. I had it restored (not for cheap, mind you...), and even though I would never play it at a real job I still love to play it around the house and such, and it gives me great satisfaction knowing I own such a classic.
Actually, if anyone knows more about my old Albert, I'd appreciate any knowledge given. Serial #B22844H. The emblem says C.G. Conn, Elkhart, Indiana. It plays in the key of B instead of Bb if everything is assembled tight...Don't know if that's right or not!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-07-27 02:50
ChrisArcand wrote:
> Actually, if anyone knows more about my old Albert, I'd
> appreciate any knowledge given. Serial #B22844H. The emblem
> says C.G. Conn, Elkhart, Indiana. It plays in the key of B
> instead of Bb if everything is assembled tight...Don't know if
> that's right or not!
It ALMOST plays a half step higher, because it is a high pitch (HP) instrument...GBK
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-07-27 03:02
There was no such thing as Conn-Selmer clarinet in the 1940's
'B' in the serial number means B clarinet. 'H' means High-Pitch. These high-pitch clarinets play somewhere in between B and Bb. Conn clarinets usually have a number before the serial number. That first number stands for a model number. (example: 34N B22844L)
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-07-27 13:06
C A ? A Conn cl with a Selmer mp [or case] ? Well said Vytas, Conn used a good, but somewhat confusing ser # system, but it may be decoded in our "How Old Is MY" resource, Search it. It is given on my older copied pages, will re-find and look. I had but gave away 2 of their low E basses of the 30-40's period, which had a workable double register key system, good but not the equal of my Selmer 30's series bass. Still collecting, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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