 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-06-24 20:57
I recently had the occasion to replace a torn tenon cork (2 years old and well lubricated) with a Valentino Synthetic Cork. It seems to be holding up quite well after 2 months. I still use the doctors slick treatment.
Has anyone just totally replace the standard tenon corks with synthetics? Any pros and cons. I am considering buying a few sheets of different thicknesses for my repair kit.
Thanks!
Jim
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-06-25 10:41
In my experience it is fairly useless. After cork is squashed for a few hours it is still capable of returning almost completely to its original thickness, once released from pressure. Valentino, on the other hand, seems not to have this sort of "memory". I rather doubt that any highly-regarded technician would be using it.
What is probably a considerably better substitute to use instead of natural cork is the black synthetic "cork" made available to technicians (only) by Krauss.
http://www.krausmusic.com/sheets/shtsynth.htm#1176
I still prefer the wonderful qualities of natural cork for tenons, although I use other materials extensively instead of natural cork for other applications.
Post Edited (2006-06-25 10:42)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-06-25 11:20
I second Gordon's view. While I'm open to all kinds of pranks re "Repairing Things" I found that for tenons cork is still unbeaten. Especially it's "rip stop" nature make it superior to more homogeneous materials.
For damping eg. key levers, I successfully use EVA foam (it's more silent than cork, especially on plastic bodies). But for tenons? Cork, cork, cork.
--
Ben
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-06-25 21:18
GEEZ, this stuff stinks on ice for tenons and pads !!! It should only be used for header gaskets - let the woodwind community get back to real materials that work.
.........Paul Aviles
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-06-26 00:22
Valentino. I've got sheets of it, and pads of it. Never used. When I saw that it was the material I regularly encountered, swore at, and replaced, I just put it away. I feel deceived by the marketing claims. I feel deceived to have ever been sold it.
But don't get me wrong; I am not resistant to superior synthetics. I probably use as wide a range of QUALITY synthetic materials as any tech on the planet. But not for tenon corks.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2006-06-26 00:41
A few years ago, I "played around" with Valentino synthetic cork. I bought some old junker clarinets off a popular auction site and decided to just do a lot of experimenting and see what happens.
In my experience, most of the time, the Valentino synthetic (VS) cork did not stick very well. Their self-adhesive glue simply didn't have any staying power for me so I resorted to the standard contact cement and even experimented with "adhesive transfer tapes". Those certainly worked better for me and I have a few of my own personal clarinets that still have the VS cork on after a few years.
My experimenting days are over, but, I would have to concur that cork is still the best material for tenons and keystops. As mentioned above by Gordon, there appears to be compression problems and there is no way to alter the sizing by sanding.
I, too, have made several pads out of VS cork, but, since no permanent circular impression was ever achieved, I abandoned the idea of using them as pads. They just never sealed well for me. The material appeared to be too hard to properly seal the imperfections of the tone hole.
Also, as some others have stated in the past, the VS cork with "their" self-adhesive glue will "move" or "slide" as the temperature increases. Again, contact cement and 0.002" adhesive transfer tape worked better for me. When I tried 0.005" adhesive transfer tape, it also would slide.
I suppose it's wise to have VS cork as "something" when an emergency occurs, but I would never recommend using it for truly permanent repairs.
Jim, it's interesting that you use EVA foam for dampening key levers. In my experimenting days, I collected a few boxes of sample EVA foam sent to me by several manufacturers. I found it to be an interesting material and at a 6 lb/ cu ft density, it makes a great synthetic pad that, IMHO, rivals the Valentino pad. Even though I've never tried EVA foam for dampening key levers, I would concur that, at a proper density, it probably would be quieter than natural cork. However, I can see that if the density is too low, (like perhaps 4 lb/ cu ft), it might be a little "squishy" and the key opening might vary depending upon how hard the key is pushed down. As mentioned above, sometimes sanding is necessary for proper fitting and I don't see that happening with the EVA foam.
So, coming from a "just want to know" amateur, natural cork still appears to be the best material for tenons and key stops.
Post Edited (2006-06-27 01:16)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-06-26 05:05
Key & Linkage 'corks":
Agglomerated cork (only the highest quality sort) has a far more positive feel for side keys, throat keys, etc. From most suppliers now, eg Musicmedic.
Agglomerated cork is much more damage-resistant for the A/D bridge key.
Very firm, synthetic felt is positive, and quieter than cork, for low ring key, crowsfoot, E/B, and other locations. (From Music Center or Kraus - only to technicians)
The synthetic leather used by Music Center for some very high quality sax pads is extremely tough, and about 0.3 mm thick - excellent where there is friction, eg between F/C key and lever, and between throat keys.
If 0.05 mm is not too thick, then a certain spinnaker cloth is by far the best membrane that I have found yet for low lever-key silencers; extremely tough and puncture resistant.
Kraus's synthetic cork has its place, but more for saxes, because it is more sound damping than cork, and dimensionally stable.
I've tried Sorbothane, but decided it is too sticky and 'woozey'.
High quality felt - either wool or synthetic (both from Music Center or Kraus - technicians only) are dimensionally stable, and quieter E/B & F#/C#) levers.
The natural cork that Buffet uses embedded in the body for the F/C lever and E/B key is a most unfortunate choice, because it just keeps compressing. Agglomerated cork is ideal.... Getting the thickness right can be tricky, but would be very easy at manufacture.
Actually I don't use natural cork much except for tenons. :-)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-06-26 07:15
it's interesting that you use EVA foam for dampening key levers. (...) I found it to be an interesting material and at a 6 lb/ cu ft density, it makes a great synthetic pad that, IMHO, rivals the Valentino pad. (...). However, I can see that if the density is too low, (like perhaps 4 lb/ cu ft), it might be a little "squishy" and the key opening might vary depending upon how hard the key is pushed down.
I have rather dense close-cell EVA foam, 3mm thick sheets, perfect for pads. I use it for dampening the key at its resting position, eg on the underside of the lower bridge key (where it slaps against the wood) or the LH E/B and F#/C# levers. Usually the player (read: me) just lifts the fingers and that causes a noticeable slap which I can feel in my mouth. The opposite (eg lowermost side key that bangs against the lower joint pillar) isn't that much of a problem because we have much better control over pressing than over "letting go".
EVA foam is a "squeeze only" material, it isn't shear-resistant. Using a good knife I can cut about 0.2mm thin strips, and while sanding is out of the question, "shaving" another 0.1mm off a glued foam strip isn't all that hard.
I successfully repadded my my Army horn using home-made EVA pads; the sole exception being the register key where I used cork. I wouldn't do it for cutting down cost - a set of pisoni pads runs at ~$12 here, and the EVA pads have to be cut by hand, glued on a suitable card backing etc... But the annoying faint rustling/smacking sound of a worn pad is gone.
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Ben
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-06-26 19:32
Perhaps you will like Kraus' new "Omni" pads then.
From previous posts I gather they're 'pro only', and not available in household quantities, right?
Thanks for the pointer, though. Yet another name to remember...
--
Ben
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-06-26 21:54
If something is 'pro only', and it is good, and there is potential demand in 'household quantities', and the price is approachable, then Curt at Musicmedic is likely to make it available to everybody. What a fine service he is providing!
Not yet though, because the clarinet version, as I understand it, is still undergoing trials.
Post Edited (2006-06-26 21:54)
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