 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bkmorton
Date: 2006-02-17 22:07
I just wanted to see what you all think. I have a student that I am working on the Mozart Clarinet Concerto with for Solo and Ensemble. I have been told by a couple clarinet teachers that they have had judges tell them that the piece is a college level piece and that it is too hard for highschool students to play.
I personally feel that it is my job as a private teacher to expose my students to the standard repetiore of clarinet literature and this piece is at the top of the list. I am obiviously talking about top level highschool students.
Should this piece be only for the college kids or kids going on to music in college?
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2006-02-17 22:10
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! It's on most of the repertoire lists for conservatories and state bands anyway. Is it a very mature piece that mainly college students can handle (to interpret correctly), sure, but it should be exposed to every clarinetist. Even more so, I'd say that the piece is important to music in general as a conglomeration of Mozart's writing styles throughout his life; it is his last completed composition, isn't it?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-02-17 22:44
The Mozart Concerto makes use of many of the building blocks of clarinet technique, combined with long, flowing, expressive melodic lines.
It is great music which is never to early to begin studying.
However....
Speaking as a NYSSMA judge, the problem with the Mozart Concerto is that literally 4 out of 5 students auditioning, play it, and play it badly.
Unfortunately, as we all know, it is a mature piece, which takes enormous control and absolute perfection to play with any sense of musicality.
Most students merely hack their way through it, content to cover most of the notes.
Thus, judges have heard more bad Mozart renditions than any other work in the repertoire.
I, for one, am almost numb from the experience.
If teachers would only be more selective with the students they send to audition, and only let those who are sufficiently prepared both technically and musically, the Mozart, played well, can be stunning.
Played terrible, it makes you want to run out of the room ...GBK
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-02-17 22:49
Actually, only professionals (earning more than $75,000/year from perfromaing alone) should be allowed to even see the music tothe Mozart Concerto!
Bob Phillips
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-18 00:36
From a purely military band perspective, the work is not deemed technically sufficient enough to garner a decent score. Since the military mind cannot distil artistry into a quantitative rating system - we never hear it.
Play the Mozart until the NY judges' ears bleed.......it's wonderful music.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Richard Salzman
Date: 2006-02-18 02:21
My high school music teacher gave me the Mozart to learn when I was a senior about a million years ago. I don't think it is ever too early to begin learning this music.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-02-18 02:27
I have an 8th grade student playing it this week at a contest (Adagio Movement). Unusual student, obviously.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Llewsrac
Date: 2006-02-18 04:58
If age was the determining factor to playing the Mozart or any other of the great works for the Clarinet, them most would only be allowed to play "Come To Jesus" in whole notes.
If your student has all the qualities to perform the Mozart, teach the music.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2006-02-18 07:35
GBK has a point, I have heard SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many bad renditions of the Mozart, Weber Concertino and Concerti, Spohr, etc. because students think that hacking through the technique is enough. They fail to realize that what makes the music is the musicality and direction you play the piece. I don't know how else to put it.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-18 11:52
If you have students "hack" through material that is less meaningful, less enjoyable you will eventually have less students and then the world will have less clarinetists which means less competition.............
yeah, go ahead and do that :-)
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-02-18 15:25
Forgive my flipant earlier contributiion.
I agree that the student should be encouraged to study the Mozart. BUT, I think that caution should be exerted to avoid s/he from playing the arpeggios incorrectly and thus obstructing development of the musicality of the performance.
I've been working on this piece since 1984 and recently asked for coaching in the subtleties of performance. I was amazed to see the density of the pencil markings written into my coach's chart.
There are things like starting trills on the upper note, supporting the lower note in a "thrown" note articulation, tiny changes in dynamic level, legatto tounging, choosing tonguing over sluring, ... Detailed expression marking.
It is a career project.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-02-18 16:32
It's a tough piece. I have only had 2 students in 8 years of teaching (not many years compared to GBK...) to whom I have given this piece.
I think that's roughly 2% of my total students...
They were both high school students, and I agree that it is a great piece to introduce at that level IF the student is able to concentrate MENTALLY in order to learn to play the piece in a way that will not make judges' ears bleed.
Katrina
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Author: clarinetgirl09
Date: 2006-02-19 19:00
I'm only a Freshman in High School, and I love Mozart's clarinet concerto. I can handle it technically and musically (I have an understanding of musicality, and it just comes naturally also, which makes playing Mozart even more enjoyable). Can I play it as well as Emma Johnson? Probably 100% no! But that doesn't mean I shouldn't 1.) be allowed to play it (or even have a copy of it, as someone said). It's a piece that lets the player interpret musicality the more they play it. You can always interpret it another way. or 2.) be told that I'm too young to play it.
Just because you're young doesn't mean you're incappable of "learning" the piece.
I heard a recording of someone playing his concerto, when I wasn't "into" music, and if it weren't for that recording, I promise you I wouldn't be where I'm at right now. That could be the same situation for someone else. I was in 8th grade (I'm in 9th grade now...I've come so far in this last year that I've tied with a Senior All-Stater). I wanted to be as good Emma Johnson when I heard that recording. If a young player with GREAT talent wasn't being challenged, it's hard for them (at a young age) to be interested. So, sooner or later, they might just forget about music altogether. That would be extremely sad. They weren't being challenged (and weren't taking private lessons), and they hadn't been introduced to the exceptional music written for their instrument. Not letting them listen to Mozart is hindering the next generation of musicians' musical development.
Why would you not want to introduce them to Mozart? Too young? That shouldn't mean anything.
This is coming from someone who loves Mozart. And this is also from personal experience. I'm just saying, Mozart's work is a learning experience. And something that should be cherished, and not kept from young musicians.
__________________________________________________________
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
Music is a sory told from your soul; a story of passion, of life. Share your story.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-02-19 19:55
With all the music out there, explore a bit! Shame we hear the same dozen pieces 90% of the time.
As a composer, while I would be flattered that people like my stuff, I would be upset if it got played so much that other really cool pieces were ignored.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: bkmorton
Date: 2006-02-19 23:02
In my humble opinion, it would be a shame to have a good highschool clarinet player not be exposed to the Mozart. I think there are good new things out there but they all haven't withstood the test of time yet like the Mozart.
I just want my students to be able to recognize the piece more than just listening to it on cd.
We could all say their are milestone pieces out there and everyone would be valid.
The newer works are important but this post was about the Mozart.
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Author: Bnewbs
Date: 2006-02-19 23:37
My teacher in high school had me study the Mozart Concerto (not to perform but just to play through and begin to understand), never cared for too much though. Maybe because I didn't have the musical muturity then (or really now for that matter). I did like it more than any of the Stamitz Weber, I am not a big fan of the classical period so that probably explains most of it. But I did enjoy and still do enjoy listening to and playing the Copeland Concerto and Sonata far more. I wonder why it is that the sonata is performed so rarely, especially in the clarinet version.
Ben
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Author: catina
Date: 2006-02-20 02:29
Hey Brian!
I agree with you for giving the Mozart to your students. Part of our job as teachers is to allow our students to explore great music in addition to all of the technical work we teach them. I know how hideous it can be to listen to someone hack through a great piece of music, but ultimately Solo and Ensemble is about the student's experience not the judge's. If your student can handle it, let him or her play. How great is it for them to play a piece by a composer who not only wrote the piece for their instrument (not one of the slew of arrangements), but a composer that they have actually heard of!
Catina
p.s. I heard congratulations are in order...
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Author: allencole
Date: 2006-02-20 17:22
Mozart, Weber, etc. are staples for teenaged students, and there's no reason not to play them. But I do worry about GBK's comments about sending kids to contests who aren't ready.
We have that problem with district band auditions here. 12 major scales and 3 octaves of chromatic is a reasonable standard, and many auditionees cannot complete them--let alone competitively. Even so, we get busloads of unqualified auditionees every year increasing judge workloads and making them miserable. Many have suggested that they not be allowed to audition unless they can actually execute this requirement.
Students certainly need to be pushed to expand themselves technically, and to expose themselves to an audience. But both student and teacher must always remember that pleasing the listener is job #1. If Mozart is going to be a hatchet job, perhaps a substitution is in order.
Allen Cole
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-02-20 17:44
Allen's points are well made.
As we all know, the Mozart Concerto, like most Classical and Romantic era solos, uses numerous scale passages, arpeggios, scales in thirds, etc...
If a student lacks sufficient skill playing basic scales (major, minor and chromatic) they should not be playing the Mozart Concerto as an audition piece. Why waste the judge's time?
At times, I wonder whose ego is being served - the private teacher or the student? ...GBK
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Author: TonkaToy
Date: 2006-02-20 18:59
Mozart
Too easy for high schoolers. Too hard for professionals.
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Author: Stephane
Date: 2006-02-20 23:55
Everyone will like this. When I was in 7th grade, I did the Mozart clarinet Concerto (2nd and 3rd movements) for NYSSMA. The result wasn't terrible; I got a ninety. However, I think that TonkaToy makes a really good point. Now, I've been working on the 1st and 2nd movements since June for NYSMAA (I'm now in high school) and I really think the piece is hard.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2006-02-22 07:08
"Too easy for high schoolers, too hard for professionals" really hits the nail on the head.
Question, though, on the NYSSMA thing. Are these pieces being played strictly for judges or is there an audience in addition to that?
Allen Cole
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Author: Stephane
Date: 2006-02-22 13:40
NYSSMA is just where you get rated by a judge which can qualify you for all-county or all-state, no audience.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-02-22 15:40
allencole wrote:
> Question, though, on the NYSSMA thing.
> Are these pieces being played strictly for judges
> or is there an audience in addition to that?
Generally, the only people permitted in the audition room are the soloist and accompanist and page turner, if necessary.
Parents, music teachers, friends etc... must wait outside.
On the beginning level (NYSSMA Level 1 or Level 2, parents are often invited in if requested ...GBK
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