 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-03 14:47
It happened again.
Just for a laugh I put a Vandoren (no. 3 traditional) on my mouthpiece. And wasn't it just the loveliest thing I'd ever heard? I searched the archives and discovered half a box of them lying around. And wouldn't you know it, every one played?
This seems to happen to me every few years. Has anyone else had this strange experience?
My theory is this:
1. Harder Vandorens are better reeds (evidence: my friend had a no. 4 that must have lasted at least five years)
2. Because of (1), everyone tries to play Vandorens that are too hard for them (I know I used to).
3. This means that most people can only play a few in each box (the day I gave up playing no. 3 as a student and bought a box of 2.5 was a happy day - they all worked (but didn't last, see point [1])).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2006-02-03 16:38
Me too. I found some old VanDoran trads (3.5s) in my "stuff" drawer, gave them a try and found almost everyone of them to play wonderfully. Consepquently, I rushed out to buy a new box of VD trad 3.5s and was somewhat disappointed as the only played "almost" as good (but still better than the VD V12s that I had been using previously).
The older trads were mostly likely of the "original" VanDoran cut and not the newer tip configuration that has been discussed "to death" already. So now, I am looking deeper into my "stuff" drawer for more older VDs, but have decided that--for now, anyhow--the newer VD trads play better for me than the V12s I had been using for so many years.
Vandoran traditionals (blue box) in--V12s out!!! (for the time being.......)
FWIW--I play LeBlanc Concertos with a Chicago Kaspar #14 mpc
BTW--I seem to remember reading that VanDoran was returning to their original tip configuration. For just their V12s or for all, including the trads?? Or am I just having another senior moment...............
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2006-02-03 16:39
Bassie - My answer to your theories:
#1 - False
#2 - False
#3 - False
...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-03 23:14
However, Bassie's underlying theory is correct: traditional Vandoren's are the best.
............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-02-03 23:26
I have been switching between Gonzales reeds and the regular Vandorens. I find the Gonzales very consistant, but when I get a good Vandoren reed it really sings. Using the ATG system I can use almost all in a box. Lately I have been getting some that have a very pale green tinge to them. I would assume they have not been aged properly. I have taken those all out of the box and that is helping, but they won't be used for quite awhile.
....Jim
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-05 18:27
GBK - My 'theory' was meant to be tongue in cheek - no offence meant :-D
Here's another...
If you keep them longer, they get better (like wine...)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-02-06 01:00
Funny, isn't it, that back when the reeds we're now calling "traditional Vandorens" (i.e. the 'blue box"reeds) were new, everyone complained about how bad they were, how the cane was sometimes green from insufficient aging, how only 2 in 10 played well, yada yada? Now, 10-20 years later, we're taking out those SAME REEDS and discovering that they play great. I've experienced the same phenomenon. Here are my theories:
1) The reeds were indeed insufficiently aged when new, but years 'in the box' have given them the extra aging time they needed all along.
2) We have obtained better mouthpieces than the ones we used back then, and one of the hallmarks of a good mouthpiece is that a greater percentage of reeds work well on it.
I think the net result is probably a combination of these two factors at work.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2006-02-06 01:37
I think that aging your reeds is always a prudent thing to do.
What the manufacturer's say:
"...Cane takes 4 years from planting until manufacturing into reeds. After 2 years the cane has reached the proper size and diameter. It is cut, bundled and let dry for an additional 2 years before beginning the manufacturing process..."
Many players (including myself) have complained about the greenish tint apparently reflecting either insufficient growing time or the lack of aging/drying of the cane. Perhaps 4 years is not enough total time? Perhaps they have not been let dry for 2 years?
An additional 6 months, or more, certainly will not hurt the reeds, and in fact may significantly improve them
That is why I've always advocated building a stockpile of reeds, with the boxes marked indicating the date of purchase.
The good and the bad
There are MANY more brands and varieties of reeds than there were 30+ years ago. But are we paying a price in quality by having too many types under each manufacturer's label?
Just like in the 60's when the R13 was THE primary professional clarinet from Buffet (and many still say that was the "golden age" of clarinets) clarinetists often remark that the quality and craftsmanship has declined as the number of different models from each manufacturer have increased. Stop and think about how many models of clarinets from the "Big 4" (especially Leblanc) which we no longer see today.
Too much diversification with no takers.
Has the basic product of reeds also been "specialized" too much? We now have thick blank, thin blank, regular cut, French filed cut, wide blank, narrow blank, tapered blank, grading in 1/4 sizes, grading in sub-strengths within a size, hand selected reeds, jazz reeds, etc...
The reed tip shape? That is not something which is universal either. Remember the short lived experiment by Vandoren a few years ago to a flatter tip profile? This was met with mass resistance by clarinetists. Vandoren, fearing a steep decline in sales, soon got the message - switching back to the more rounded tip which we now see.
Reed companies now say that the demand for reeds is now at an all-time high. Manufacturers are often hard pressed to keep up with the needs of the major retailers.
Sometimes it appears that corners are cut to satisfy production output ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2006-02-06 03:28
hmmmmm i have been told by "experts" that once the cane is made into a reed it is too late to age it, apparently.
another thing i have been informed is that "green tint" in the reed is because the cane was harvested to soon, not because it wasn't dried for long enough.... and again, aging can't actually fix this.
MY OPINION? i don't know- i'm just passing on what i've heard from those further up the food chain....
what i do know-
with a reed design that utilises a thinner blank.... there is a higher chance that the "whole of the reed" is made from stiffer cane (cane that is nearer the outside of the tube). Think about it..... the fibres nearer the outside tend to be stiffer than those on the inside- fact. The thicker the reed blank, the greater the chance that there will be a big variation in stiffness.... The tip area of a reed is made of cane that is "deeper" in the tube.
i believe that this factor is one of the reasons that a good reed of the "thin blank" variety can really sound fabulous, and that players fall in love with this factor. i know a number of pro players who prefer Blue box vandorens over V12, and they have each told me it's the "sound" not the price.
donald
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-06 08:41
Too much diversification? Possibly.
Certainly, my local music shop has told me they don't know what to stock any more. There's an issue of brand identity: everyone 'knew' that La Voz, Rico, Mitchell Lurie and Grand Concert were different products, but what about GC, GC Thick and GC Evo?
Perhaps part of the reason is that more brands mean more grades of cane can be used - and so a greater proportion of a given year's harvest can be used to produce reeds. To me, the consistency of the cane in V12 feels physically different to that in Blue Box (but that might be just because it's thicker).
Or is part of the perceived diversivication due to the fact that I can now buy online reeds from all over the world (south America, Australia, Germany etc.)?
Having said all this, I have to admit that that's how progress occurs. Personally, GC Evo is one of my favourite products (and I have no connection to any commercial enterprise to bias me in this respect).
And after all, reed products do 'drop out' of the market (was Glotin the most recent?)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-06 12:22
Back in the day, the "trads" came in little, purple, plastic boxes and yes there were only two or three good ones per box. I switched back and forth (a little) between those and the Morre reeds (are those made anymore?). Those were thick stock reeds with more of a German cut to them, however unlike today's trendy thick stock reeds, the Morres worked. To me it boils down to how they are processed as well as the final cut. I have a bunch of old reeds that are just as crappy as the day they were new, many, many years ago - just one vote against the aging theory.
..............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2006-02-06 13:12
Paul Aviles wrote:
> I switched back and forth (a little) between those and the
> Morre reeds (are those made anymore?).
Morre reeds ceased production in the mid 1980's.
This helped to spawn the introduction, by Vandoren, of a Morre type reed which for marketing purposes would play right out of the box: the V12.
Unfortunately, the V12 is a mere shadow of the true Morre reed...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
