 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-24 14:54
Recently I mentioned dropping and breaking a favorite Kaspar mouthpiece. The tip broke off and left a smooth smiley-faced shape. Two pieces and some shattered pieces would make it pretty difficult to put back together. I sent the mouthpiece off to a board member who said he thought he could fix it, but it looks like that isn't possible and it's on its way back to me.
Since breaking the Kaspar I've been looking for another one as good and haven't yet found it. I came close with a Chicago that looked to me like it had had a tip repair in the same shape as the Cicero I broke. I can't say absolutely it had been broken because it was advertised as having a "deep scratch" on the tip. It was in the perfect shape of a smiley-face, but was perfectly smooth on the inside. So, my question is this: is it possible to do something like a "tip transplant" on a rare mouthpiece like my broken Cicero?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-01-24 16:15
Brenda,
Anything's possible --- but you have to understand that after such major surgery your Kaspar would have to be refaced, and since 'the facing's the thing', the resulting mouthpiece might not play the way it did originally. (Conceivably it could play better --- but almost certainly it would play differently.)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-24 16:35
Yes, it's obvious that it is forever altered from its original specs. However, in its current state it is, shall I use crude language, GARBAGE! So, if it were repaired it would be of some use--even if altered a bit. It was a Cicero 11, and I wouldn't mind having it a bit more open, say like a 13.
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2006-01-24 16:39
It's possible to make a tip rail out of epoxy. The result is a mouthpiece which is similar, but with a little less ring in the sound.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2006-01-24 18:23
As Dave says, anything's possible, Brenda.
Is the mouthpiece (hard)rubber or plastic? Although it requires a steady hand and steel nerves [chuckle], it can be done... unless it's that kind of [bottle]plastic that none of the standard solvent-adhesives will work on, no matter what you try. I've had very encouraging results with 'plastic' clarinet bodies for quite a while now and I don't know why a mouthpiece would be any different - especially since you have all, or at least most, of the pieces to work with; at least as pattern/measurement fragments.
I also lean toward your suggestion, Brenda, of a "tip transplant"... same as with bottom joint tenons where you steal a piece off an expired joint (in this case, a similar mouthpiece with enough 'meat' to re-face) and graft it, then shape to fit and face to (whatever) specs.
In my opinion... do-able.
Many months ago I did as Chris suggests, filled in a broken tip of a Pete Fountain clear mouthpiece with clear epoxy. The chip probably wasn't as severe as yours but after shaping and facing the fix 'took' and, last I heard, she's still tootin'.... 
- ron b -
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-24 18:29
It's an old Kaspar Chedeville--so what were they? Steel Ebonite or hard rubber? Seems one could use a similar material with proper bonding and have a skilled repairperson do a new face. I'm wondering, if one used the tip of another mouthpiece instead of building a tip from epoxy wouldn't it have a nice ring?
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Author: ron b
Date: 2006-01-24 18:54
I can find no reason it wouldn't.... what're we waiting for?
- r b -
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-01-24 19:11
With a "new" built-up [epoxy] tip you have just one discontinuity: mpc body -> tip. Else, with a transplanted tip, you end up with two: body -> cement -> tip.
I can imagine both versions react differently to stress and consequently sound differently.
The main problem IMHO is that there's no "grace zone" where a bit of protruding/surrounding (and hence supporting) cement material wouldn't bother - both inside and outside need to be "clean". You have a contact surface of very few square millimeters, with considerable stress coming from the new tip. It's like glueing a broken toothpick...
Maybe you should cast it into an acrylic glass cube and use it as a memento...
--
Ben
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Author: ron b
Date: 2006-01-24 19:43
[hahahaha...hmmmmuummm... well...] yeah, "skill". We can all of us always use a little more o' that than we think we already have ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
Last week my smiley and friendly (and sometimes jovial) dentist installed a couple of crowns for me. He did a wonderful job. Of course it was nothing the rest of us couldn't do if only we had the determination, a few years of intensive study, rigorous training, tough exams, the right tools and a living passion to help others....
y'know, the more I think about this, the more I like Ben's idea
- rb -
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-01-24 19:47
I would bet that my dentist could fix it. Except for the refacing, of course.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-24 19:53
My dentist claims to be a clarinet player. I think he tells everyone that. But, I wouldn't recommend him because my husband's fillings are always falling out. Perhaps he should study under a good mouthpiece refacer like Chris Hill or Walter Grabner or Greg Smith. Then I might look forward to going in to see him.
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2006-01-24 20:10
Attachment: Slant_Link_tip_repair_1.jpg (15k)
I've done tip replacement on a number of sax and clarinet mouthpieces. Many of them had chunks broken off and the bits lost.
Here's an Otto Link tenor piece that I replaced a portion of the tip on. The colour of the material doesn't match, but it's a small price to pay for a functional mouthpiece that was treasure by the player.
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Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2006-01-24 20:24
Attachment: Beak replacement.jpg (21k)
Brenda, your mouthpiece can be repaired! Please do not be discouraged. I would not recommend making an entire tip out of epoxy. Although it could be done, that is a lot of material to replace and I feel you would benefit from having as much good rubber working for you as is possible. As you know, the rubber is what makes direct contact with your reed and the reed-rubber relationship is crucial in creating an excellent sound, response, and feel. I would recommend either of two options.
Collect the broken beak pieces and glue them together with epoxy, then attach the fixed beak portion to the broken mouthpiece, and finish to the ideal surface texture.
Replace your broken beak with a new hard rubber piece, and finish to the ideal surface texture.
Either of these two options will require a refacing, and yes your new mouthpiece will play differently….hopefully much better!
Please note that your replaced beak will probably not be a “smiley face.” It will probably run across the mouthpiece’s tip in a straight line.
If the new beak is made of good rubber, and if your Kaspar mouthpiece was not compromised by too many refacings or poor quality work, it should sound terrific.
The resulting beak replacement can easily be smooth and free of bumps or voids. All that you would see is a very slight hairline seem that is perfectly smooth to the touch. A mouthpiece’s beak is actually thick enough at the point of your proposed repair that the new piece should bond to your mouthpiece for a lifetime without concern. Careful selection of epoxy is crucial because it should be waterproof and it should set to a consistency similar to hard rubber (not to hard, not too soft).
By the way, Steel Ebonite is just another name for Hard Rubber. Other names used in the past have been: Steelite Ebonite, Ebonite, Vulcanite, India Rubber, and Caoutchouc. Please note that Bakelite is different.
Good luck. I have included a picture of a mid-stage beak repair job. It is being repaired with a hard rubber piece at about the same place on the mouthpiece that your’s would most likely be fixed.
Brad Behn
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-01-24 21:06
Another question to ask is: why bother? Since your repaired Kaspar would (a) no longer play like the original, but rather it would play like the characteristic mouthpieces of whomever refaced it; and (b) it would have zero resale or collectible value, as being damaged goods...........why not just replace it with a good mouthpiece from a reputable maker? Unless it has sentimental value, like bronzed baby shoes.....
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-24 21:31
Well, David, it's not like baby shoes, but I paid $450.00 for it and it was a really good one that made me quite ill when I dropped it. I guess I would feel I hadn't just tossed $450.00 down the toilet--on on the floor, as was the case. I know it would cost money to get it fixed and it wouldn't be the same. But perhaps it would still be a good mouthpiece, as good as a new one. After all, I would hate for the Kaspar to become a ghost.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-01-24 21:42
Thanks, Brenda, I was just curious --- because once a mouthpiece (intact or not) gets refaced, it becomes just as much (if not more) the product of the refacer, as of the original maker. In other words, if hypothetically Brad were to repair and reface your Kaspar, I would submit that the resulting mouthpiece would be a 'Brad Behn' more than a 'Kaspar'. But please accept my apologies nonetheless, I was being nosy! No offense intended.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-24 21:53
No offense at all, David. I appreciate your concerned comments. They were well taken.
And, I've played Kaspars that Brad refaced. They were quite nice. I've sent him an email asking about the cost of such a venture. I'll let you know if I get it done.
There are very few "player Kaspars" out there that are original. This one wasn't original to begin with. It had been refaced, but was done very nicely. If I find a good player original it will probably cost me at least $600.00 unless I catch a bargain on an auction site, or from an individual who didn't know what he/she had. Of course, I would be constrained by conscience to let them know its true value and then it would be right back to $600.00.
Also, as you mentioned, David, there are lots and lots of good Kaspar clones out there: Greg Smith, Walter Grabner, Brad Behn, etc. So a new one might be the way to go.
HOWEVER, I think the thought of a tip transplant is fascinating. Wonder what Allan Segal thinks--he's the surgeon among us. I guess the "blood type" would have to match so there wasn't tissue rejection.
Post Edited (2006-01-24 21:56)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-25 14:00
Just spoke with Brad Behn about doing a tip transplant. So, when I get it back I'll show photos and give a report.
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