 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2004-08-17 00:25
Just like the title, is there anyone here on the Bboard that uses the Bell or more so the barrel? My chadash is getting blown out, im looking at other options.
Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-08-17 00:28
I've just started using a fantastic Backun barrel and am still trying bells. They are quite excellent, in my humble opinion. There have been quite a few threads recently about them, a search should get you some good info. If the first you try doesn't quite work for you, I'd encourage you to try a few different makes of them.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
|
|
|
Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2004-08-17 00:37
What type do you play on? I know they have many types of wood. Having not tried the backun products I can't comment on how well they play but I don't want to it to be obvious that if i were to play their bells (I don't like displaying logos, i ripped the little alteri badge of my bag, i don't pay to advertise)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-08-17 00:57
I'm playing on a cocobolo barrel: a dark, rich reddish-brown with dark brown rings. It has a "Backun Canada" engraving on it, though the shape and color alone are probably enough to tell the whole world what kind of barrel you're playing. The contours are different from that of most barrels you'd find.
I'm trying grenadilla bells, which blend in slightly more than the cocobolo, but not much. The lack of metal rings on the barrels and bells, and their odd shape, make people take a second look. Check the website to see a few samples.
I don't see what your problem is with not wanting to advertise. Sure, you probably don't want to post a banner above your seat at the concert, but a tasteful recessed engraving, such as those on the Backun products, I find quite acceptable. If it's a product that you support and are proud of, and that has added something unique and distinctive to your sound, why not?
If you like, you can always put the bell and barrel on so that the logos face you. However, if you want it to blend in, the Morrie Backun products are not the way to go (that is, until it becomes more common for people to have such cool-looking non-uniform parts).
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
|
|
|
Author: John_May
Date: 2004-08-17 01:10
I live in Vancouver, Morrie has my RC as we speak, actually. I've been down there a couple of times, and his selection is amazing. They're beautiful and beautifully made, and I intend to buy one as soon as I pick up my instrument. They sounded great, but I figured I should probably have my horn in top shape when I pick one out. At 200$, and for the craftsmanship that's involved, they're quite a bargain... I'm happy I'm in the city so I can find the right length; they're measured in such small increments that it's actually possible to find one that's perfect.
The bells are nice too, but i'm not convinced they have quite as large an effect as advertised. And I'm a poor college student, so I can't afford 700 Canadian for a bell. However, i have only tried one, so I'll be able to give a better idea later, when I get my horn back.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-08-17 02:05
(Disclaimer - I traded Morrie some products and he also gave me a discount on a new barrel)
I believe that barrels make a significant difference both in tone and also in intonation and "color" of notes. I have been playing an old Clark Fobes 66 mm barrel on my Buffet Vintage (one of the herd). I was right around the corner at ClarinetFest from the din of the multitudes trying out Backun barrels and bells so I had to go over myself and give them a try. With a little personal attention and looking over my setup Morrie gave me six, 66.5 mm barrels made of cocobolo x 2, purple heart, grenadilla, and a couple of darker figured woods that I could not identify. After playing some scales and arpeggios on all and switching back and forth with my own barrel, I found one - the purple heart - that I feel has improved the tone, ease of playing, and intonation of my horn. This is a personal observation only. The fit to my tenon corks was not perfect but Morrie looked over the modifications needed and showed up later at my booth with a perfect fitting barrel. He is a wonderful guy and very knowledgeable and skilled at his craft.
Even with a wad of cash from sales in my hands I could not bring myself to even try the bells for fear that I might fall in love with one of them too. ClarinetFest is populated with some pretty outstanding players both professional and amateur and apparently many of them thought that Bacun barrels and bells were a good addition to their setups because they would wander around the corner to my emporium with the new additions on their horns.
ClarinetFest and other shows that Morrie attends are probably the best place to make your selection and try out many barrels and bells or visit him in Canada. IMHO it would be difficult to get one at a time and keep sending them back for new candidates - a long and arduous process.
I am thrilled with my new barrel and my teacher (you are never too old or so satisfied with your playing that lessons will not help !!! ) also commented on the improvement in tone and smoothness of transitions.
The Doctor
|
|
|
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-08-17 03:19
Sending them back and forth is a bit more difficult, I agree. However, I happened upon an outstanding barrel, the first that was shipped out to me (I'd played on a few others my teacher was trying out, and this one worked far better for me). Hopefully the next bell will work well for me... the time and shipping costs do begin to pile up, though by all means I find the end result worth it.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
|
|
|
Author: mnorswor
Date: 2004-08-17 04:15
I play on Morrie's bells. I don't play the barrels because I've got Opperman barrels that were custom made to my instrument. No need to switch if something isn't broken However, the bells make a SIGNIFICANT difference for me. The evenness between registers is much better and I don't have to push at all to go over either break. I highly recommend his products and him personally. He's a true gentleman and will never push you to buy something you don't need.
--Michael
|
|
|
|
|
Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2004-08-17 05:14
I might be catching a case of gear acquisition syndrom. I need a cure quick!
Post Edited (2004-08-17 05:36)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-08-17 05:54
Yeah me too - only cure is to indulge it.
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! ![[down]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley23.gif) Buffet
|
|
|
|
|
Author: 68fordfalcon
Date: 2004-08-17 18:39
I was in Morrie's shop last week, and I bought two barrels, A and Bb. They make a huge difference. I have to get used to them, but in a way that is very enjoyable-playing is easier and just sounds better. I couldn't imagine trying to get some though the mail, although on the first barrel I tried, one that hadn't been customized to my instrument, the difference was remarkable and I was sold on the spot. I did try the bells for a moment, but only for the purpose of understanding what kind of money I need to save up-they are the real deal. Morrie's more than happy to share with you all of the people who play his products. I have the cocobolo barrels, and the Bb has Kingswood rings (dark wood), just so I can tell them apart easily. He's a great guy, and his interest is to make the customer sound better. Yes! I actually use them!!
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2004-08-17 19:05
Tell me about blowing out a barrel. How do you know you've blown it out? How do you know it's not your instrument? How can you blow out a block of wood with no mechanical attachments, very little length, and no more than microscopic changes in internal dimensions due to usage? I can see changes in shape due to humidity, temperature etc. Unfortunately, I do suspect that any changes to the remainder of the clarinet as a result of the same humidity, temperature, etc would be more critical at the time. Basically I don't know how you can say that some limitation that you are sensing is due to the barrel having changed over time.
Help me understand........
Moo,
Matt
|
|
|
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-08-17 19:11
Matt,
It's like religion, dontcha know ---- ya just gotta BELIEVE!
Besides, urban myths like "blowout" stimulate the economy by encouraging unnecessary purchases of new clarinets and accessories --- sort of like buying a new car when the ashtray gets full*
*do new cars even HAVE ashtrays any more?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: John_May
Date: 2004-08-17 20:19
Well, as I say, the jury is still out on the bells where I'm concerned (especially given the cost), but here is my plan. Once I get my horn back to top shape (it's currently in the shop), I will play it, first with me Buffet bell, then with a few of Morrie's. If I notice a substantial difference, well, that should give the indication that it might be worthwhile. But given the fact that it's just a bell, I'm a bit skeptical.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: sbbishop
Date: 2004-08-17 20:42
Every once in a while my whole clarinet gets blown out. I just put it up for the day, try blowing it again the next day and all is fine!!
LOL!!
|
|
|
|
|
Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2004-08-18 00:56
David Spiegelthal
I was able to purhase an ashtray as an accessory for my 2000 Caravan.
John
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Lisa
Date: 2004-08-18 04:15
Oh, everybody's gotta be a comedian today!
I've played on a cocobolo barrel/bell for a couple hours during a quartet rehearsal since our bass clarinetist bought them for his Bb at ClarinetFest and let me try them out just for fun. I didn't spend any time mixing and matching my own pieces with the Bakuns to compare the difference. I'm a skeptic as to whether or not the bell would make a big difference, but rather I think the big difference I heard/felt was due to the barrel. Hey, I could be wrong.
Nobody has mentioned this yet (but maybe in other threads on this topic?), but the lightweight cocobolo bell drove me crazy--it felt like I didn't even have a bell on, and I didn't like the off-balance feel of the bottom of the clarinet being lighter than the top. Maybe that's just me.
Did anyone notice how many high school kids in the clarinet choir had cocobolo clarinets? I counted at least three out of about fifteen of them--sure they look snazzy, but at that age, shouldn't kids be more interested in playing well? (Disclaimer--those kids played well!) I'm embarassed to admit that I almost made PA all-state band on a (oh, I just can't tell you), but my point is that I could play better than a lot of those schmucks who had top-of-the-line clarinets.
I think most people are generally satisfied with what they have until they find out that there's something *new and improved* out there, then they gotta go out and get it!
Post Edited (2004-08-24 15:43)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-18 04:23
Lisa wrote:
> I think most people are generally satisfied with what they have
> until they find out that there's something *new and improved*
> out there, then they gotta go out and get it!
Actually, I'm predicting a glut of used Backun barrels and bells hitting eBay in about 6 months.
You heard it here first...GBK
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-22 01:22
Nope - I don't think so. They are that good. I'm not one who follows hype, if I don't like it I won't play it. I even had the nerve (ballz) to send back a handselected Selmer 10G picked at the Factory by Gigliotti himself as I didn't like it and decided not to play it.
Boy did I catch hell for that one too!!
Point is that the Backun barrels and bells ARE that good. I personally don't prefer the custom color look (cocobolo), but love the way that they feel and sound. So I picked the cocobolo instead of the grenadilla after trying them for over 3 hours at his shop.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2004-08-22 03:15
yay someone else who doesn't like the way they look! (i'm ok with the color, but don't like the knobly bits)
fortunately i don't need a new barrel for any of my clarinets, and wouldn't go to that expense for a bell unless i had an instrument that i knew i'd be playing for another 10 years.... so i don't have the slightest urge to try the Backun barrels etc out (thus, whether or not i like the look of them has no importance).
by the way- i played a very nice Jimmy Yan barrel for about two years before it cracked! It was a real pain getting smart comments about it from players down here who don't even know what a Moennig Barrel is, and have never tried a barrel other than the one that came with the clarinet....
"oh, does it make you play faster?" etc etc etc
those guys would all go nuts if they saw me with a Backun Barrel!
donald
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2004-08-23 11:18
I'm still waiting for LeOpus1190s to explain to me about blown out barrels!
MOO,
Matt
|
|
|
|
|
Author: jack
Date: 2004-08-23 16:42
My R-13 (or me) had a problem playing sharp on too many notes. Tried a few Backun barrells at one of the Clarinet fests (New Orleans?). Got one that, I swear, puts every single note dead center on a tuning meter. And I hugely like the smoothness now evident in the soundand feel. You gotta love it. Listened to the Backun bass clarinet bells (at the Baltimore fest) on the Buffet Prestige. I will simply say that the difference was so profound that the stock bell sounded sort of amateurish.
I'm gonna disagree with GBK "markets gonna be flooded with used Backuns", thats a laugh. They're just too good.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-23 17:31
jack wrote:
> I'm gonna disagree with GBK "markets gonna be flooded with used
> Backuns", thats a laugh. They're just too good.
I tried Backun barrels and bells at the recent ClarinetFest and agree that they have a marked effect on the response and (sometimes) the tuning of the clarinet. Morrie is definitely providing quality products with the highest degree of technology behind them.
However, from what I could hear, some of the individuals trying and buying Morrie's products were not at a performing level where a custom barrel or bell will solve their playing deficiencies. There is simply no magic bullet to substitute for practice and innate talent.
How many of them bought a custom barrel or bell just to be "the first on the block" to own one?
When that realization becomes apparent to them, their recent purchases probably WILL find their way onto eBay... GBK
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-23 19:51
No need for EBAY - he takes them back. His policy is that if a player doesn't like it or appreciate what it does for them, he want's it back.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: jack
Date: 2004-08-24 08:07
GBK wrote:
"Some of the individuals ....buying Morrie's products were not at a ... level where a custom barrell or bell will solve their problems".
Cynicism will get you nowhere! Should everyone be properly passed on before being granted the privilege to purchase the finest equipment? Over 80% of those attending the Fests are strictly amateurs.
Believe it or not I have actually spotted used Buffet, Leblanc, Rossi, Selmer and Yamaha clarinets along with used Chadish, Moennig, etc. barrells, being offered for sale. What goes around, goes around some more.
Glad to hear though, that you liked Morrie's products. And I've got no problem with those that enjoy em.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: jack
Date: 2004-08-24 08:16
Lisa wrote: "at least three kids in the clarinet choir had cocobollo clarinets".
I'll bet they were rosewood. Who makes cocobollo besides Rossi? And he's out of cocobollo wood. Lots of luck.
For the record, I love my cocobollo Rossi. In fact, I love it a lot!
Jack
|
|
|
|
|
Author: OpusII
Date: 2004-08-24 08:25
Jack Wrote:
Quote:
I'll bet they were rosewood. Who makes cocobollo besides Rossi? And he's out of cocobollo wood. Lots of luck.
Backun does.... http://www.backunmusical.com/
(select-> clarinets/barrels/page 2 on the bottom of the page)
Eddy
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-24 11:58
No - he (Backun) has a long backorder (3 years) for the Clarinets. No high school student would have one of them.
It was most likely a Rossi.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: mystery science dieter
Date: 2004-08-24 13:59
What I want to know is how this guy gets a multi page advertisement in the Clarinet magazine for FREE because someone decided it was an ARTICLE. The whole thing was a bunch of ad copy bs.
The equipment is good or it isn't, but if you want to print a page of endorsements AND claim that your products turn the register breaks into 'child's play' I think you should pay for it. Does any one honestly believe that with one of these products, a child could immediately play smoothly and perfectly between the registers?
The magazine has become unadulterated crap. Too bad.
If anyone is stupid enough to actually believe that a piece of wood will enable you to overcome bad playing technique then they deserve to have an empty bank account or hot credit card.
This country is supposedly in a poor economy and yet people are lining up like lemmings to drop $1500 on two barrels and two bells?
Post Edited (2004-08-24 14:10)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-08-24 14:11
mystery science dieter wrote:
> What I want to know is how this guy gets a multi page
> advertisement in the Clarinet magazine for FREE because someone
> decided it was an ARTICLE. The whole thing was a bunch of ad
> copy bs.
Oh, come on. "The Clarinet" (and just about any other magazine) runs exactly the same kind of thing issue after issue - normally one article written by a biased reporter extolling the virtues of a particular product. I haven't seen you complaining about Gozales or Zonda or Vandoren, yet there have been memorable articles written for those companies ... the bias is obvious, and no harm is done; rather, we get a glimpse of how someone does their work. I for one have no problem engaging my brain to puzzle out what part of the article is educational and what part hyperbole. Are you rpesuming that the audience for "The Clarinet" is generally too stupid to notice?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: lllebret
Date: 2004-08-24 14:58
I have a backun barrel and bell, and what they do do is make the resistance even as you change registers (or change from one overtone series to another in the altissimo). The sound can change also from a grenadilla barrel, probably because of the different woods he uses (I have a cocbolo and rosewood barrel and the do not sound the same- maybe because the rosewood can't be finished to the same smoothness as the cocobolo or perhaps because of the weight difference). There is an article here that talks about how the barrel and bell can provide choke points and reflect the sound wave back up the clarinet to add resonance to the sound. In any case, the bells do make a difference to more than the bell notes and they also seem to even out the resistance. Its not as big a difference (to me) as the barrels, but the barrels and bell seem to work together. It doesn't make the clarinet childs play, but it certainly makes it easier to play when you don't feel resistance changes when you change notes- c3 to c#3 is now absolutely smooth with no resistance change on my clarinet . The question then becomes whether you are sensitive enought to notice these changes, and , if so, whether the changes are worth the money. A free tweek that can help smooth register changes on some clarinets is to pull the bell out a couple of millimeters (the backun bell is slightly longer than my buffet bell, but I also pull out the backun bell slightly-it seems to help and doesn't cost anything). The sugestion to rotate your barrel and bell to find the most resonance also works (perhaps because barrels and bells can be slightly eccentrically reamed or maybe its to line up the grain). None of these changes are as big as the difference between a good reed and a bad reed.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-24 16:50
Aw come on mystery science dieter - have some guts and use your real name here.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-08-24 22:36
(Disclaimer - Other than trading supplies and a small discount I have no financial interests or receive any renumeration from Backun)
My friends there are politics in every phase of our lives and the music business is but another arena. You will have to discuss the editorial policies of the Clarinet Magazine with the editor and voice your concerns. All of the politics aside I feel that Morrie makes a contribution to the art of clarinet playing with his products just as all of the other artisan barrel and mouthpiece makers do for us.
I am not an amateur nor a talented professional player but have been around the block a few times with mouthpieces, ligatures, reeds, barrels (never bells I must admit) and can make a considered judgement on the differences in my own playing and tone with his barrels. They do make transitions easier and add a more robust flavor to the tone (IMHO). Most experienced players can make unconscious adjustments in their playing through experience. The arguement that inexperienced players cannot tell a difference in their playing and tone is individual but individually observed. In order to make a difference there must be a difference and this must be detected by players that do not how to make these adjustments and therefore must be observed by these players.
Morrie's products are not inexpensive but people will not shell out their money for elective products if they do not feel that they are worth the money. The people at ClarinetFest who purchased his products all gave them a good trial, from my own observations, and were for the most part pretty experienced players. The caveat of course is that hardware does not make the player - only God given talent, and proper instruction and practice will produce the refined player.
The Doctor
|
|
|
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-08-25 07:46
....
Post Edited (2006-05-17 13:22)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-08-25 08:39
Hype or actuality... whatever gets a good sound. Personally, I feel that the Backun stuff is fantastic, and has done wonders for my sound, and I think it is because it's a great, high-quality product. However, if someone told me that making red marks on my reeds with a very expensive pen, and I found it to work for me, I would continue to buy such expensive pens. Whether the better playing comes as a result of an actual difference, or I've just tricked myself into playing better, I'm happy with the result.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
|
|
|
Author: OpusII
Date: 2004-08-25 09:20
I have to agree with EEBaum. If you play better when you buy a Backun barrel or bell (even if it's only between your ears...), then why not spend the money on the extra gadget......
Personally I don't have any Backun product on my instrument and I’m not going to buy one. I only think that you have to feel one with your instrument. If that means buying a new attribute and you have enough money to spend, then just buy it.....
Sure every good player can compensate the quality of a less instrument, but what if you transfer the clarinet into a limousine......
Eddy
Post Edited (2004-08-25 09:24)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2004-08-25 10:13
hhhhhmmmmm
ok- for clarnibass, i don't actually know anyone who likes Sharon Kams sound or playing (i certainly don't, but i'm sure she doesn't care about little ol' me)... now, this doesn't mean that such people aren't plentiful in number (i'd guess that YOU like her playing)... and i know of a zillion people (me among them) who play an R13 and don't sound anything like her (some of them sound better in my opinion, and others worse). Isn't this an interesting business then? We can all play a similar clarinet and sound so different (and place value on different qualities).
the thing is this- "joe bloggs" sounds good on an R13...ok, but maybe if he played it with a Backun barrel he'd sound GREAT.... or maybe he'd sound good 90% of the time instead of 80%... and the Tom Ridenour angle- maybe Joe bloggs can play his R13 in tune just as it is with a bit of extra effort, but if it's easier to play in tune with a new barrel, then he can place his tone better on a few notes, or can worry about phrasing more because he's not distracted by having to overcome so many shortcomings.
i'm not an advocate for spending money on every little gadget that comes along, i'm an advocate for plain hard work/study/practise. But surely if you can give yourself an edge by improving your clarinet, you deserve it.
and just because something is possible with a bit of hard work
doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible with a bit less hard work! eh?
donald
(sorry, i really really don't like Sharon Kams playing or tone, even if she did come 2nd in the Munich competition in 1988!)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-08-25 14:06
If i think of my favorite clarinetists, none of them have any 'special' equipment.
I'm not saying those barrels and bells aren't good, they might be excellent. It's just that if you look at professional clarinet players, 99% of them don't use those barrels, and if you are a pro and have a fairly expensive clarinet ($2,000+) then I'm sure it's not a money problem to buy them, it's by choice.
If for some psychological reason someone feels those barrels and bells help them play better, then what can I say, buy them.
Post Edited (2006-05-17 13:24)
|
|
|
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-25 19:50
-----------------------------
It's just that if you look at professional clarinet players, 99% of them don't use those barrels
-----------------------------
Uh, you need to do a re-look at Professional Clarinet Players. Many now DO use them.
And many of the biggest performers in Clarinet are using it now.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Keil
Date: 2004-08-25 19:57
I'm curious as to the number of naysayers who have actually tried out the Backun line product? I believe in the old adage, "don't knock it til you've tried it" and i for one intend to try it.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-08-25 20:20
Keil wrote:
> I'm curious as to the number of naysayers who have actually
> tried out the Backun line product?
What naysayers? I don't think anyone has knocked either the performance or the quality of the Backun products (and a number of the people posting here have tried the products). The only thing that is being questioned is "bang for the buck".
Not so many years back the very expensive Charlie Bay products were the talk of the town and a lot of people plunked down some heavy dough on Charlie's products. They're good quality, too, and people claimed that they'd solve just about anything that ails you. You just don't seem to hear about them nearly so often nowadays ...
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Ryan25
Date: 2006-01-20 17:52
Backun, Backun, Backun......That's all you hear about today. I have tryed Backun barrels and Bells and for me I did not notice enough of a good difference in my sound to buy them.
This is what I noticed:
The Barrels spread your sound (thus making many people think that the tone is darker or better) and the bells wrap the sound up and deaden it a little bit. So in my opinion, they wrok great as a combo but not so great individually. Also, I tryed backun Bells in a mid level pro orchestra rehersal and people had a hard time hearing me in the back of the hall in a tutti section. That was enough for me to say no on Backun. I want life in my sound and Backun products seem to homogenize the sound and make it dull....maybe more colorful....but dull. Thats my opinion and I do agree with all of you that Morrie's products are very nice and that he is very nice. I guess I just don't understand all the hype. I don't really hear a whole lot of difference.
But what works for one doesn't have to work for all. We are not all playing a mouthpiece by the same maker are we? We all just need to practice and keep growing as clarinetist's. If I slap a Backun bell on a Leblanc opus, I will NOT sound like Mr. Larry Combs or Ricardo Morales (I wish it were that easy) and if they get rid of there Backun's they will still sound like Larry Combs and Ricardo Morales.
|
|
|
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
