 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John H
Date: 2006-01-16 00:07
hello, im an intermediate clarinetist (8th grader).
well.. just looking for some suggestions to what im planning to buy..
my music teacher recommends to buy m30-13(?) or b45..
couldnt find m30 at the local store..
well with m30.. i heard its best fit with black/white master reeds
will it go the same if it is m30-13?
i think.. m30 traditional goes with black/white master reeds?
well.. i just want some suggestions (:
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2006-01-16 00:37
Do a search on those two mouthpieces and you will find an abundance of info. My recommendation would be for the M30 and to stay away from the B45. I would also advise to stick with a traditional or V12 vandoren reed. Using Black or White Master reeds at this stage in your clarineting is not a great idea.
Get your M30 from an online company such as Muncy.
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2006-01-16 01:15
Dave,
Whats wrong with the B45? Lots of good players use it. Tried the M30 myself. Quite liked the sound but I had a bit of difficulty getting use to the feel. I only had one day to try it...perhaps more time woud have helped.
Chris.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-16 02:32
Phurster wrote:
> Whats wrong with the B45? Lots of good players use it.
Good players? Yes, but if you are saying that beginners should be put on B45 mouthpieces - I strongly disagree.
The B45 is a TERRIBLE beginner's mouthpiece. With a tip opening of 1.195 mm, it is far too resistant for those just starting to play. Many beginners get frustrated by using this mouthpiece and have had negative experiences with learning the clarinet solely because of it.
Why band directors and teachers continually recommend it as a beginner's mouthpiece is a mystery...GBK
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2006-01-16 03:33
GBK
I'd wager that many of those teachers play instruments OTHER than clarinet (primarily) or slept through ALL of their clarinet lessons. A certain diector comes to mind who simply wanted a quick-fix for a clarinet section plagued with a honky sound. Beware the director who requires EVERYONE to play one set-up, for they know not what they do!!!!!
Clayton
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-16 04:02
The actual measurements of a B45 (or any mass produced mouthpiece) can vary greatly. The 1.195 listed tip opening of the B45 may in fact range from medium close to medium open.
Try 10 different ones, or 20 different ones. Very few are alike.
Thus, the band director who thinks that a section of clarinet players using B45's will bring uniformity by playing similar equipment, is sadly mistaken ...GBK
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Author: John H
Date: 2006-01-16 05:14
umm i have 5rvl profile 88
which is... VERY VERY OLD...
if you mean B45 is a terrible mouthpiece...
i wonder about 5rvl88 ive been using??
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2006-01-16 05:54
I agree with GBK about the B45. My very first clarinet came with one of these. There were no 5RVs in stock, and I was in a hurry. After a few very frustrating weeks, I bought a 5RV and the difference was quite spectacular!
Now of course, I actually prefer the B45!
Steve
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-01-16 07:10
Is the B45 less consistant than other Vandoren mouthpieces? I've recently tried five 5RV Lyre mouthpieces and they were very uniform, almost no difference at all between them.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-01-16 07:33
From reading this blog, I get the feeling that B45 is a design more sensitive to slight variations than other mouthpieces.
I like 5RV. I keep returning to mine and it's always surprisingly satisfying. Mouthpieces wear out very slowly. The professional material is hard and brittle, so the end usually comes suddenly... :-D
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-16 08:17
"5RV Lyre Profile 88 which is VERY VERY OLD?"
If that's the case, my Centered Tones are prehistoric!
The oldest Profile 88 mouthpieces are only 18 years old - I bought one of these when they first hit the shelves back then - I preferred the thinner beak on these as it gave me a better playing angle - held away from the body.
And it's a good mouthpiece, though I've recently changed to a 13 Series M15, also with the Profile 88 beak.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-01-16 13:16
>>From reading this blog, I get the feeling that B45 is a design more sensitive to slight variations than other mouthpieces.
>>
Maybe I'm indulging in semantics here, but I don't think the B45 is sensitive to slight variations so much as it *has* more variations. I've looked at those mouthpieces in stores and at ClarinetFest. Even without calipers, it's easy to see significant manufacturing inconsistencies. Variability can be a good thing or a bad thing. For a beginner or an intermediate, it's probably a bad thing, aside from the fact that, as others have written, that mouthpiece was not designed with early students in mind.
For intermediate or more advanced players looking to upgrade, a particular B45 might suit a particular individual very well, but it's impossible for people on a bulletin board to know what might suit *you*. A beginner isn't going to be able to make those distinctions, but the intermediate eighth-grader who asked the question might be able to, as long as it's possible to compare several B45s. If the teacher plays the clarinet, then maybe the teacher will listen to you test several mouthpieces on trial, and help to choose.
The Fobes Debut is a more consistent mouthpiece, well-made, and IMHO, good for beginners *and* more advanced students. It's just a good mouthpiece, period, and affordable.
Since the death of Mr. Hite, is anyone manufacturing his Hite Premiere? Mine is very free-blowing and I think it would suit an early or intermediate student much better than a B45 would. It retailed for around $20 (although mine turned up in a case with a used clarinet), and I think that the Hite Premiere, like the Fobes Debut, is better than just a beginner mouthpiece.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2006-01-16 13:21)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-01-16 13:56
Leila,
I made my point about sensitivity to variations for 2 reasons:
1. Other Vandorens I've tried are very consistent (to the extent that I mail-ordered a 5RV and found it quite acceptable on delivery)
2. I read somewhere on-line (forget where, sorry) that chamber design can make mouthpieces very sensitive to lay / reed, so I assumed that might explain the B45 problem.
*However*, if you've actually been out and measured a load, then I stand corrected! The question is then: why? Is it because Vandoren make more B45 than anything else? Or because they're selling to students who don't know better (cries of 'shame!' if that's the case)?
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2006-01-16 23:18
GBK wrote,
"The B45 is a TERRIBLE beginner's mouthpiece. With a tip opening of 1.195 mm, it is far too resistant for those just starting to play. Many beginners get frustrated by using this mouthpiece and have had negative experiences with learning the clarinet solely because of it.
Why band directors and teachers continually recommend it as a beginner's mouthpiece is a mystery"
The opening of this mouthpiece is quite wide by US standards. In Europe and Aus it is considered a medium opening. I have played on closed (M15, M30, Gregory Smith) and more open mouthpieces (B45,B40, Selmer C85/120). To a certain extent you can control the resistance you feel by careful reed selection. For a young player a strength 2 Vandoren with a B45 is fine.
When I recomend this mouthpiece. It is usually to players with about 2 years experience. I suggest they try mouthpieces with closer opening as well. Some pick the B45 and some pick others..its a matter of personal preference.
With beginers I normaly suggest that they stay with the stock mouthpiece until they have reached a modicum of control.
The opening is reasonably wide and this could lead to control issues. It is a question of balancing this negative with the advantages of the sound and the projection that it (the mouthpiece) gives.
Band directors may recommend it because is consistent and good quality mpc.
Chris.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-16 23:35
Phurster wrote:
> Band directors may recommend it because is consistent and good
> quality mpc.
Band directors (especially those who DO NOT play clarinet) recommend the B45 because it is the only mouthpiece they've heard of ...GBK
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2006-01-16 23:55
Many people feel comfortable with the B45 for years, but some feel it lacks "character". I say try out the M30, M13, and M15 from Vanforen if you can.
IMHO
-Tyler
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Author: Burt
Date: 2006-01-17 01:15
I play on an M30, and have good results with Gonzalez FOF and Zonda 3.5 as well as V12. A Vandoren mouthpiece doesn't require a Vandoren reed or ligature.
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2006-01-17 01:34
GBK wrote
"Band directors (especially those who DO NOT play clarinet) recommend the B45 because it is the only mouthpiece they've heard of"
This may well be true however I feel this view is a little simplistic.
This mouthpiece is one of Buffets most popular brand. I reitterate the fact that many excellent players use it.
The mouthpiece is part of the story with Clarinet playing but it is not the whole story.
I don't understand the emotional zealotry that comes with selection of a mouthpiece. Many people seem to be on a messianic pilgramage to "convert" people to this brand or another.
My feeling is try them all with an open mind. I guarantee that if GBK was forced to use a B45 that in a couple of weeks he/she would get the same results as with his previous mouthpiece.
Your brother in Clarinet playing,
Chris
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-01-17 01:49
Phurster wrote:
"Vandoren's most popular model", but I'm not sure that's true. Has anyone a list of how many of the different models Vandoren sells each year? In my small geographic area the 5RV Lyre wins as a recommended starting mouthpiece ...
Let's not jump to conclusions with no evidence at hand.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-17 01:56
Phurster wrote:
> This may well be true however I feel this view is a little simplistic.
You've missed the point.
When 4th graders are playing B45's as their first mouthpiece, because either their band director told them to get one, or (worse yet) because the music store sold it to them as the proper one to start with, we need to re-examine whose priorities are being met.
Is it the music store who sells a 4th grader a $60 Vandoren mouthpiece when a $30 Fobes Debut would be a far better choice?
Or, is it the fault of the music teacher who has been indoctrinated in a mentality of "a B45 for all" regardless of embouchure, playing experience or (worst of all) because he knows of no other mouthpiece to recommend?
A stock B45 can be an excellent mouthpiece for different levels and abilities. I have a few on the shelf in my studio for students to try as we start thinking of upgrading mouthpiece selection.
However, it is not for the 4th grader who is earnestly trying to form an embouchure and get a sound on the clarinet for the very first time...GBK
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2006-01-18 01:21
Mark my original quote was,
"This mouthpiece is one of Buffets most popular brand."
I said this because the leaflet I have in front of me from Vandoren (This was corrected later) says it is.
GBK said,
"However, it is not for the 4th grader who is earnestly trying to form an embouchure and get a sound on the clarinet for the very first time"
I think we are having differing definitions of a begginer. This is a fair point that GBK raises however what I actually said was:
"When I recomend this mouthpiece. It is usually to players with about 2 years experience. I suggest they try mouthpieces with closer opening as well. Some pick the B45 and some pick others..its a matter of personal preference."
Notice the 2 year bit.
GBK also said,
"stock B45 can be an excellent mouthpiece for different levels and abilities"
Couldn't agree more.
So how did I miss the point.
Words can be a fairly clumsy form of communication.
Chris.
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