 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aaron
Date: 2005-12-25 23:07
i got the tom ridenour ATG reed finishing system about five days ago, and i'm so bad at using it that i've run out of broken in reeds to finish (mutilate).
i'm just wondering how long it took everyone else to get the hang of the system and if they had any tips or tricks that tom doesn't reccomend.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-25 23:53
Did you watch the DVD?
It is pretty straight-forward.
Try it for balancing NEW reeds.
Since you are working on ones that play ok anyway (broken in) you might just be softening them but not improving things.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Joe B
Date: 2005-12-25 23:57
Both my wife and I have been using the ATG system for a little over a year. We followed Tom's instructions and have had no problem. Some people I've talked to that were having problems were sanding the tip first instead of balancing first. If a reed is too stiff, I balance it first and many times that takes care of it. The very last thing I do is take some off the tip if necessary. You also need to develop an ear for when a reed is balanced and make sure you're damping one side of the reed. Spend time listening to the balancing of the reed and you'll start getting the hang of it. I also follow the theory that you can always take some off but you can't put it back. I usually start with taking about 5 strokes off the one side and re-check the balancing. It is definitely worth the effort to spend time learning how to use it.
Joe
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-12-26 01:38
Don't even press down at all. Let the natural weight of your hand do the sanding, and don't exert ANY force downwards.
And if you sand a reed too thin, clip the tip a bit (to make it harder) and try to balance again.
Also, do as Tom recommends and continually playtest and balance, playtest and balance. I started out with maybe three strokes on a side and then playtesting it. If it's STILL unbalanced, another three light strokes.
Eventually you'll learn just how much to take off. But keep it light, and do it a little at a time between playtests.
As Joe B states above, I find that just balancing left and right is quick, and VERY effective. I hardly ever do any more than that.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2005-12-26 01:58
Watch the video. Do what it says. Be gentle. You can always take off alittle more, but you can't put any back on.
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-12-26 03:59
Aaron
Watch the DVD, read the book, watch the DVD again. Then work a few reeds (don't take off too much), rewatch the DVD, balance a few more reeds. As with everything, practice will improve your skills and soon you'll be a master-balancer!!! Good Luck!!!
Clayton > who is STILL watching the DVD, reading the book, and yet somehow manages to ruin some reeds
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-26 16:40
I'm with those previously answering.
I use the ATG to balance my reeds; and I take only a few strokes between tests.
Something interesting: When you decide by the twist test which edge of the reed is too stiff, hold the reed up to a light (look through it) and see if you can see that it is thicker on that side. My Mitchell-Luries and Vandorens are usually unbalanced because of a thicker edge; and the light test confirms my play test --and gives me an idea of how much material must be taken off.
I always use the fine sandpaper and take few strokes between play tests.
When you do the twelfths test, C:G:E ..., the reed will only cooperate if its balanced. When you can't get the altissimo, go back to the twist test and be very discerning. You'll find (knowing that the reed is unbalanced) that you missed the hard edge (but you're getting very close).
Keep at it! I carry mine in my clarinet case!
Bob Phillips
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-12-26 20:18
IMO,
The most important and best part of the ATG system is the booklet and DVD knowledge that comes with it. I use a flat piece of glass (not necessarily the one that came with the system), buy a sheet of sandpaper at the local hardware store, wrap it around my index finger and use that. The block given to me I actually dislike, as it tends (at least for me) to be problematic. And the refills of sandpaper (espeically with shipping and whatnot), more expensive than from the local hardware store.
The DVD and booklet with explanations and instructions? Worth every penny I paid. I believe it's already paid me back with the reeds I saved, and, more importantly, the frustration saved from reeds that don't even play well enough to practice on.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-12-26 22:37
Alexi
Aren't there different "strengths" of sandpaper at a hardware store?? I honestly don't know!!! Which strength/type of sandpaper do you purchase, I'm almost out!!!
Clayton
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-12-27 02:33
Yes there are different grades of sandpaper.
They go by the term "grit".
400 grit should be good for adjusting the reed. 600 if you want to tune it a little more finely.
And I read somewhere (forgot where) that a piece of typewriter paper is about 800 grit, which would work well for polishing the back of your reed.
Or better yet, just save money and buy some ACTUAL typewriter paper, place it on a flat piece of glass, and polish away.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-12-27 15:29
I don't use the ATG system but I know it works well for some people. Before I play any reed I rub the back of it on a 3x5 file card stock until it doesn't "grab" any more. There are finer grades of "sandpaper" available that what you will find in most hardware stores and the media they use is not "sand". I myself would not use any paper coarser than 600. The finer papers are available from some "Craft" stores and from suppliers to woodworkers and artists. No offense meant,Alexi, but I got a chuckle on the "typewriter" paper. I guess printer paper is easier to find.
Bob Draznik
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-12-27 18:59
Do we win a prize if we guess what ATG stands for?
I use the KISS system. Lightly wet your fingers and rub the reed on the finest piece of sandpaper you can find.
I learnt this technique on this forum. The results have been spectacular.
Steve
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-27 19:18
ATG: Against The Grain
Because Ridenour passes the sandpaper from the tip of the reed UP the vamp --against the grain. This instead of from base to tip --"downhill" and with the grain.
It could be that ATG has implications that go beyond just the fiber orientation in the cane.
Bob Phillips
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-12-27 20:01
Thanks Bob. I didn't know that.
Definitely worth looking into.
Anything that gets those reeds working properly!
Steve
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2005-12-27 20:30
ClariBone --
re your question about "sandpaper"
At the hardware store or home center you will find two types of sandpaper:
One will be off white or beige color (aluminum oxide). The other will be charcoal gray (silicon carbide). Buy the charcoal gray, sometimes called wet or dry paper because you can use it either wet or dry.
It is widely available in grits ranging from about 150 to 1200, although for the finer grits (1000-2000) you may have to go to an auto paint store, since much of the wet or dry paper sold is used for final finish in auto body work. The coarser grits will cost about 50-75 cents a sheet while the really fine grits such as 1200 may run a dollar or more.
(The larger the number, the finer the grit.)
The two big manufacturers of quality abrasives are 3M and Norton. Stay with their products. Don't try to save a few cents by using off brands.
400 grit is probably the most popular one for initial work on reeds and mouthpieces, although as you can see from the other posts on this thread, there is disagreement as to exactly which grit to start with.
To touch up small areas on the reed, cut out a tiny circle of sandpaper and glue it on to the end of the eraser on a lead pencil. To work on somewhat larger areas, cut a 1/4" x 3" strip of sandpaper and wrap it around one of your fingers.
When sheet of wet or dry paper gets filled with dust from your reed, just wash it off under the tap while rubbing it. Then blot it dry on a paper towel and do final drying on the kitchen counter under a weight such as a book or baking dish or stack of magazines. This will prevent the paper from curling up. This way you can reuse the paper many times.
Although some of us copy the oboe and bassoon players and use a knife for most of our reed adjusting work, most people find it easier to work on their reeds with silicon carbide paper or with little abrasive sticks such as those sold by Vandoren or Ridenour. Us old timers started out using Dutch rush, which is OK for some operations but will take far longer than the other methods.
Start out by working on your bad reeds. You have nothing to lose since those reeds were not playable. Experiment.
Most of us prefer to start out with reeds somewhat stiffer than our preferred strength, and to leave the reed slightly on the strong side, since most reeds will become more flexible ("softer") during the break in process.
I'll bet that once you learn the ropes you will adjust all of your reeds, and will never go back to playing reeds right out of the box. A properly adjusted and finished reed will not only play better but will last far longer than an unfinished reed.
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-12-28 06:55
Thanks!!!!! I'll visit the hardware store and see what they have!!! Thanks Again!!!
Clayton
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