 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: JJM
Date: 2005-09-07 17:22
Is there a historic / traditional approach to the opening gliss? After the initial trill, is the norm to start ascending from the f# below?
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Author: neil.clarinet
Date: 2005-09-07 17:57
I think it is chromatic scale from the low F# up to the break, then gliss. That's how I do it, not that I've done it for real, yet.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-07 18:18
I find the Selmer CT and Series 9 very flexible in the upper register, and can do the lip gliss from B to G by playing G lipped right down to sound B, sliding up to G then lipping the top C down to G and sliding up to top C... ermmm... easier done than said so it seems!
It's hard for me to describe!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-09-07 18:37
neil.clarinet wrote:
> I think it is chromatic scale from the low F# up to the break,
> then gliss. That's how I do it, not that I've done it for real, yet.
Not correct.
The opening figure is notated on the part as a trill on G3 and then a 17 note diatonic written C major scale beginning on G3 and ending on B6. The abbreviation gliss. is written under the entire figure.
The actual glissando, is usually started just after going over the break.
After the initial trill, some clarinetist begin the opening scale on the written G. I've heard others start on the (unwritten) lower neighbor F#...GBK
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-09-07 21:24
Since the gliss wasn't written in the original score.........! Speaking of which...I just got my 10cd set titled "Begin The Beguine" Artie Shaw recordings. What a terrific bargain at around $14......."Membran Music Ltd"..Hamburg 2005....Did anyone ever do glisses and smears better than Artie...?
Bob Draznik
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-09-07 21:53
Bob,
From the limited recordings I've heard, no. No one I've heard can draw them out on demand SO well as Artie could. Simply amazes me every time I hear them.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-09-08 02:42
I do the Rhapsody gliss just like Neil does it. I trill G3, then start on F# and go chromatically up to C5 and then I do a C major scale fully glissed up to C6. I think this is how I saw it written in Larry Guy's book.
I love the Rhapsody in Blue glissando/solo! One of my favorite things to play!
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Author: stratford
Date: 2005-09-08 10:19
I haven't seen the original score, but I have an old recording of the Paul Whiteman band playing what would be one of the original `jazzy' versions.
The clarinetist (is it Ross Gorman?) enters with a lip gliss......
Cheers.....
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2005-09-08 11:01
I'm looking at the orchestral part published by Harms, Inc. in NY scored by Ferde Grofe.
The notation is you trill the G on a half and quarter note tie (fermata) then a 1/32nd note gliss starting on G to B ending on a half note C. The trill is performed at piano and the gliss ends on mf.
Most of the performances I've heard gliss up to the D then smear to the C. You could smear the entire gliss if you are good enough.
Best
RW
Best
Rick
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-09-08 11:32
Rick Williams wrote:
> Most of the performances I've heard gliss up to the D then
> smear to the C. You could smear the entire gliss if you are
> good enough.
"Gliss" (glissando) and "smear" are interchangeable terms that imply the same thing.
What is your distinction between the two? ...GBK
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2005-09-08 15:21
for what it's worth, I've seen both "smear" and "gliss written into the same piece of music, by which a distinction WAS meant to be made. That being, that a gliss was intended to be played as a chromatic scale and a smear as a...smear.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-09-08 15:58
That Gliss vs. Smear thing would be something good to get cleared up. I always equated the two, but had a hard time resolving it when seeing a Gliss in piano music. Ditto for harp music. I've come to think of Glissando more as fudging a scale run vs. the meaning of 'smear' which most seem to agree means a continuous, non-segmented rise/fall in pitch.
As for the Rhapsody, I would think that most performers would start the actual smear/slide around the D, since that allows the fingers to be gradually slid off of the tone holes. A student who is working on this pointed out that his recording (I don't know which) has the player actually bending pitch downward at the D before sliding up to the thumb C. I don't know whether this is for effect, or whether it's simply a function of stretching his jaw to meet his fingers for the upward pull.
To start the slide (awaiting term clarification) down below D or C# would take a very steady hand on those pinky keys/levers, and possibly a two-segment approach like the one described by Chris P.
There are also issues with reed strength & possibly bore size. Like Chris, I also have an easier time with this on the Selmer CT with the larger bore & tone holes and was using #3 or #3.5 reeds at the time that I initially taught myself to do it. Playing #5 reeds on an R13 in college, I lost much of my ability in this area, although I do pretty well now with #4 reeds on an R13. Tone hole size may also be an issue, if fingers are given too much of the job, and the jaw and throat are kept too rigid.
This can relate to the 'jazz mouthpiece' issue in terms of the stability vs. flexibility issue. Stable setups (hard reed/close mpc) resist this kind of treatment, and the reed can 'stall' if support lags. I cannot imagine doing a slide of more than a step or two below the first break, and finger movement would be critical. But the old jazz guys generally had high-flexibility setups (soft reed/open mpc) and seemed to have a very easy time with it.
Stratford mentions the Whiteman band clarinetist STARTING with a gliss. Is this continuous from low G to thumb high C? This is a pretty tall order if you want to maintain tone quality and projection. I've never found a way to do it across the first break. (although it does very well across the second break)
Final item on the Whiteman Band version. The David Pino book tells that the introduction of the continuous 'smear' originated with Whiteman's clarinetist, who was lampooning Ted Lewis during a break in the rehearsal. Accoring to Pino, Gershwin overheard this and asked the clarinetist to use that technique in performance.
Allen Cole
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-09-08 17:04
I've had to play the 'gliss' a few times (in windband, symphony and as part of a poem related to Gershwin, but it's the same tricky thing :-) ) and was happy I could make at least 'some kind' of gliss.
I don't know where it starts (definately not at the low notes, and most likely after 'taking the break').
It is a special kind of thing, once you know how to do, you probably never forget, before you know .... you'll have many hours of trying.
But, just try and see, none of us clarinet players will give you a hard time if it doesn' t work. I know a few who do incredible nice glissando's, but whatever happens, it's probably the most terrifying solo that I ever played.
It's also a great feeling if you make it ;-), but even then only we (the clarinet 'freaks' ) will understand what an achievement it is.
Peter
Post Edited (2005-09-08 17:07)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-08 18:37
I'd rather not!
They complain that I play too loud! Just shows they've never had to sit in front of themselves.
With the lip gliss/slide/smear thingy, there's also the mouth cavity, tongue and throat goings on as well, so it's a pretty complex series of events to co-ordinate.
I can manage that on a 5RV Lyre with a Vandoren 2.5 - but my Selmer C85 120 is much better being more open - especially the lip gliss/smear just before the end of 'Begin The Beguine' - immediately before the four chromatic staccato (and straight quaver/8s) notes up to the high ermmmm... D, Eb or E depending what key the arrangement happens to be in.
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2005-09-09 01:25
"Did anyone ever do glisses and smears better than Artie...?"
The only one who got close to Artie just in terms of sliding around the clarinet was Barney Bigard, with Duke Ellington's band. Absolute master of the slow steady gliss.
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Author: stratford
Date: 2005-09-09 03:45
Thanks Allen,
I had heard the anecdote regarding the Ted Lewis sendup....The Whiteman recordings are great..
The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Music does not offer much by way of an explanation of glissando for wind players...only piano (a `fudged' scale) or a stringed instrument (which seems to describe a `smear').
Anyway...getting that Rhapsody lip gliss down at home is one thing, but having the confidence to do it in front of an audience is another!
Listen to some of the ODJB recordings (Livery Stable Blues is one which comes to mind)...a lot of note bending...
And the English trad jazz guys from the Fifties and Sixties...Acker Bilk and Monty Sunshine (Chris Barbers band)....
But I think that Artie Shaw had the best....
Cheers....
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-09-09 06:19
Stratford, there is one question that I am dying to know the answer to.
On the Whiteman recording, did the clarinet begin the 'smear' part of the gliss below or above the break?
Allen Cole
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Author: stratford
Date: 2005-09-09 06:42
I will dig out the vinyl record this weekend,
but to my recollection, he begins the smear after the break. Compared to the later 'symphonic' version, Whiteman plays the Rhapsody at a pretty rapid tempo.
But I will play it tomorrow, and let you know....
Cheers.....
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2005-09-09 14:09
re gliss vs smear........I think it just might be a language thing. Glissando...Italian....same root as the french glisser.. slide ..Smear obviously English. How people use these terms might just be random. One other thought is that smear might be a shorter version of a glissando...so a smear into a high Bb might just be a dwee type of attack...starting under the target pitch by semitone or so. Glissando might be larger in scope...eg from a fourth below. To me a glissando achieved by just playing a chromatic scale isn't a glisssando.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-09 14:17
Then there's also the term 'flux' - but I don't know how this differs from a gliss...
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-09-09 17:56
My guess is that "smear" is a word coined by jazz/swing musicians. If you smear a word you just wrote in ink you can't read the individual letters....clearly
Bob Draznik
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-09-09 18:21
New Grove Dictionary of Jazz:
"Smear. An exaggerated BEND of a semitone or a tone down and then up again, executed with a harsh or "dirty" tone; it is most often associated with brass instruments in jazz."
Maybe we're not talking about a smear in Rhapsody in Blue.
As for "Glissando" (or maybe better, "Portamento"), Groves offers a number of different varieties: "Doit," "Drop" or "Fall Off," "Flip," "Lift," "Lip," "Plop," "Rip," "Scoop," and "Spill" (a variant of "Fall Off")
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-09 18:24
Hello,
Several years ago, I heard an anecdote and a pirate recording of Benny Goodman playing Rhapsody in Blue. I wonder if anyone else has heard this. Evidently, Whiteman hired Goodman to play the solo for a radio broadcast and he flubbed it! I actually heard the recording in relation to this story, but I guess it could have been anyone playing the solo.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-09 20:20
Another way of performing the upward lip bend after playing C5 is to finger Eb5 then lip slide up to the Eb, then lift finger 1 but still playing Eb5 - this is the harmonic fingering of high C (Sp, Th, OXX|XXXEb) and thus a smooth upward slide from Eb5 right up to C6 can be made with this one fingering alone.
Then your routine fingerings for the rest of the solo can resume - I normally use the forked Bb5 to Ab5 afterwards (just by playing Ab and lifting/closing finger 2), that's the beauty of full Boehms, and a tad later trilling using the LH Eb going back up as C is taken with the right hand.
Yeah, I just realised what 'The C4 standard' is at the top of the page for!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-09-09 20:25)
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-09-09 21:16
Ben Redwine,
I'm not aware of the Goodman Rhapsody in Blue recording with Whiteman, but I do have a broadcast recording he made with Toscanini and the NBC Symphony from November 1, 1942.
Benny blows the opening solo with a big-time squeak towards the end. Painful to hear.
You can find this on Vintage Jazz Classics CD (VJC-1034)
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-09 22:56
Hello larryb,
That must have been the story and recording that I heard. I just confused my "band leaders". That, or over the years, I was trying to make my story better (or worse, depending upon your perspective). Thanks for setting me straight.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-09-10 00:27
Ben,
It's understandable - many have confused Whiteman and Toscanini over the years.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-10 13:08
Hello Larryb,
Actually, I make it a habit to not look at conductors, so it could be Toscanini or Whiteman, it just doesn't matter.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2005-09-11 05:20
I was finally able to play the smear/glissando from Rhapsody in Blue today! I just played a fast chromatic up until around the D over the break and then did a nice long gliss/smear up to the C. It may be impossible to explain, but I didn't think about it, I just let it happen. It was a wonderful to be able to play it. I still need to work on smoothness, but it's a start. I just have to lay off the vibrato at the top, cause I'm using that to cover up the fact that I don't know exactly where the C is. It's kind of like a safety net, and it definitely sounds "indecisive."
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-11 09:09
Did you use this fingering from Eb upwards (Sp, Th, OXX|XXXEb)?
This will give a secure high C as a harmonic, but can be lipped from Eb5 all the way up (with some practice) to C6.
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