 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: woodchuck
Date: 2005-02-04 03:49
Greetings~
I have fallen shamelessly in love with the clarinet. I don't know what happened, I was minding my own business one day blissfully playing saxophone...and I heard this music that seemed to polinate the clarinet tree for the first time. So...I need help, and I'm hoping someone will take me under their wing and give me some guidance....
I recently purchased a wood Linton (Malerne?) Bass Clarinet that I'm excited about, that arrives in the mail tomorrow. I'll need some help with finding mouthpieces, both for jazz and classical, but likely sticking to classical to start with.
I also notice that some alto clarinets are ring key and some are plateau, I wonder what the rough ratio is, and I would think I would prefer a ring key as bending notes would seem easier, like on an open hole flute?
Amidst the veritable sea of wood Bb clarinets help with decent ones not so expen$ive would be lovely.
I'm very very curious about what most people call albert system clarinets. They seem to range quite a bit in how much keywork they have. The simplicity intrigues me. I will likely use all these instruments in some seemingly un-orhtodox ways, as in mimicing string sections in modern? American folk music to start. Why so much western folk and band instruments are strangers is beyond me. I've also started to learn to play the Duduk. All this transpired from hearing Richard Shindell's latest cd, on which the band Puente Celeste from Argentina accompanied, with one member playing Bass & Sop Clarinet and Duduk.
Thanks very much for any help anyone may offer.
~Peter.
Somewhere between the classical
and the blues, is the flower
of the indigenous.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-02-04 05:15
Well, for starters, Peter, I'd like to be one of the first to say: "Welcome to the Clarinet BBoard" 
I'm sure many greetings will follow. You've discovered a good place.
Many folks here share your interests so I'm pretty confident you'll get responses regarding those. I'm one of many unknown and undiscovered Albert system players here. Be that as it may, I'm happy to share anything I'm able to that might benefit you in that respect. I also play Simple System and Oehler system if that's of any interest. Also play bass and alto (Boehm) clarinet(s).
Best wishes to you, Peter. I'm sure with your sax foundation background you'll make startling progress with the clarinet.
In what part of the world do you reside?
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Contra
Date: 2005-02-05 05:04
Very few alto clarinets have rings instead of plateau keys. I never liked the word plateau. Anyway, different mouthpieces don't really do much for jazz on bass clarinet. I had an extremely easy time going from classical to jazz in three seconds flat. Never try that during a rehearsal.
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Author: jArius
Date: 2005-02-05 05:21
Just a question: how long have you been playing saxophone? In other words, how much do you know about how any instrument works in general, about musical basics, about general traits of specific instrument families, that sort of thing. It would be much easier for us to help you if we knew that.
And by the way, welcome to the BBoard!
Jeremy Bruins
Proud member of the too-much-time-on-my-hands club.
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2005-02-05 05:31
Hi, and welcome to the BB!
I am a folk musician who plays Albert/Simple system clarinet (mainly Greek folk music). If there's any info. I can supply on these types of clarinets, just ask away. I've been playing since around 1963.
This BB has so many experts on so many things, that I think you'll enjoy it a lot.
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-02-05 13:59
Hi WC - I also echo greetings and the questions asked of you above, so we can give you some specific advice. I had an old Linton bass cl and sold it to a young [16 Yr.] student. He has now learned ?some? about it and bass playing, which is quite diff from the sop cls. You likely will do some squeeking, which tells you that it has pad, etc leaks, needing pro repair/testing/tweaking. It doesn't play like or as easily as a sax does and takes learning. I use quite soft reeds, some players don't, likely their mouthpiece "curve/tip" allows harder reeds without making playing uncomfortably difficult. The bass sounds best in the lower register, [chalameau], the "clarion" may be weak [for a while at least], and except for solo playing, has little "altissimo" written for it. Friends here and I can/will give more specific advice if we hear from you. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: woodchuck
Date: 2005-02-05 14:22
Hi Ron,
Thanks for the welcome! I replied via email, but I'm not sure that works with the board. Did anything else come from me to you?
Thanks,
Peter.
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Author: woodchuck
Date: 2005-02-05 14:30
Greetings Contra~
Possibly I'm not using the right terms to explain myself clearly. What terms would you use to differentiate from ring and non-ring (plateau) alto clarinets? I know that some Bundy student alto's have some rings, and I recently saw a Conn with some rings, so are these that rare? I'm also curious about your comments on mouthpieces. I find the mouthpiece makes quite a difference on sax, and while I can play jazz or classical with the same mouthpiece on sax, if I want a very quiet smooth even tone a classical mp is noticeably better, and if I want a growly blues tone something more open with a slight baffle works much better.
Thanks,
Peter T.
Somewhere between the classical
and the blues, is the flower
of the indigenous.
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Author: woodchuck
Date: 2005-02-05 14:38
Greetings jArius,
Great insightful question!
I have been playing sax for about 30 years, with an occasional few years off for bad behavior. Once when I had stopped playing, after a year I started having a series of bizarre mythic sax dreams. I started playing again. I also sing and write, play acoustic guitar (a little slide) play flute, and some hand percussion. I co-managed a music store for a couple years, and on and off have made my living buying and selling instruments. I think I know my way around the mechanics etc of instruments pretty well.
Thanks,
Peter.
Somewhere between the classical
and the blues, is the flower
of the indigenous.
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Author: woodchuck
Date: 2005-02-05 14:44
Hello Kalakos~
I just bought my first Albert system clarinet! I love it. It's a bit of a frankenstein (wood upper joint and rubber or plastic lower), but it was very cheap and it plays pretty well. It will get me by til I find a better one.
*Question*
There seems to be a range of Albert's that have more and less rings. Some top joints have no rings at all, and some have 2, maybe some have one? Does this have to do with the era it was made?
Thanks,
Peter.
Somewhere between the classical
and the blues, is the flower
of the indigenous.
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Author: woodchuck
Date: 2005-02-05 14:50
Greetings Mark & Don~
Yes, the bass needs to go to the shop. It seems to play ok, but some notes are strong and some not so strong. It goes in on Monday. I just bought an old Albert system Bb sop yesterday that seems to play pretty well. I think when I have time I'm going to take it apart and try my hand at re-padding it. I don't seem to see much difference between bass clarinet reeds and tenor sax reeds, but I assume there must be finer details about how they are cut that effect performance. The mouthpieces are very different!
Thanks,
Peter.
Somewhere between the classical
and the blues, is the flower
of the indigenous.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-02-05 17:02
Hi, Peter -
Clicking on the blue "author" at the top of replies should connect you to e-mail. I haven't gotten anything from you. Hope you saved it... :/
- ron b -
whose e-mail address is:
baxter_ron@hotmail.com
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Author: Low_Reed
Date: 2005-02-05 18:23
Hi, Peter et. al.,
Your introductory message, full of wild enthusiasm, eclectic musical tastes, and a great signature quote, has prompted me to sign up for this list.
I've been a reader here for a long time, as well as a reader/writer on the Yahoo bass clarinet group. I, too, fell in love with clarinet, bass clarinet in particular. For me, it was a return to my musical roots after a 32-year hiatus: 27 years of playing the stereo, followed by a five-year, on-and-off flirtation with tenor sax.
As you explore clarinets from your grounding in saxes, I hope you don't have difficulty dealing with different fingerings for the same notes played an octave apart. That little key above the left thumb plateau/hole is a twelfth key on the clarinets, not an octave key (as I'm sure you already know). Believe it or not, I had the opposite problem -- even after three decades, I needed to play left hand down for the C below the staff. But the darn tenor kept giving me a G... It was with deep pleasure and an intense sense of kinesthetic homecoming that I first laid hands (and embouchure) on my new Yamaha YCL221 student bass clarinet in August 2002.
It's turned out to be a terrific horn, especially as I have improved as a player. What got me my biggest bang for the buck in terms of playability was my settling on a Grabner CXBB custom mouthpiece, along with Alexander Superial Classique TENOR SAX reeds, strength 2-1/2. Made for an instant improvement in clarion-register response. And, over time, I'm even getting comfortable in altissimo (which has yet a third set of fingerings!).
So, welcome to the deep, dark, delicious world of bass clarinet, Peter. I'm really intrigued with the breadth of your musical sensibilities. My tastes run to jazz, classic rock, blues, world music, classical, and beyond. And I'm trying to explore those areas with my favorite voice, the bass clarinet.
Speaking of eclectic, here's some music you might enjoy exploring the
Cornelius Boots Web site. Cornelius was mentioned recently on another thread in this forum. His sound samples send shivers up and down my spine! Check out his Edmund Welles bass clarinet quartet.
For some background on my signature below, take a look at:
http://www.musiciansconnected.com/Blog/Low_Reed.aspx?ID=1/23/2004112647AM#1/23/2004112647AM
Keep posting, keep playing, and, above all, follow your muse!
-- Bruce
**Music is the river of the world!**
-- inspired by Tom Waits and a world full of music makers
Post Edited (2005-02-05 20:54)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-02-05 19:38
Welcome, Bruce {L R}, I'm sure we've "touched base/bass" on Yahoo as well. I get great enjoyment from continued learning, and opportunity to express opinion [perhaps some ignorance as well] in a very-well run forum [not against 'em]. Will look for Cornelius, and forward to your later contributions. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: woodchuck
Date: 2005-02-06 00:06
Bravo Bruce!!
Thanks for the great long post! The Edmund Welles stuff is great! And love his cover poster as well, can't help that. I like their use of stereo separation, two parts sounding like one, but talking back and forth. I plan to do some looping with a repeater, and do things like virtual dixieland and god knows what else (actually I don't think even god knows at this point). Magnesium is a little over the top for me. Cornelius is all over the map. I'll have to check him out some more.
Yes that pesky register key is going to take a bit of time. But I am determined. Blind raging passion will do that. (that and what else???) One of my mentors says the purpose in life is to be in big trouble. I'm working on it.
Ah yes, the right reed/mouthpiece married to the right horn. I know that all to well from sax. Either something has changed with me, or I've looked around enough to settle into what I like, but I've finally found some sax mouthpieces that often work even transferred from horn to horn. I've had six's and super 20's etc and I'm playing a pair of Kohlert's right now that I love, and a Vito (Yana) bari.
There is so SO much great music out there. Of all the crazy things, I've been listening to mostly old Jazz and new country lately. But I find myself very enamered with music that comes out of community, that ins't so all about MEMEMEMEME and what IIIII did and felt etc. SO field recordings, recordings of festivals and such are tickling me right now. Music where it's being played for the sacred wild, jeez what hard stuff to express. I heard an old African recording a few years back that haunts me now. What I recall was a small to medium sized jazz band, that played in a western 12 tone scale, and the piece seemed arranged, although that is sometimes what good intuition sounds like. The instruments were being played from a western jazz technique standpoint, maybe with a slight lean towards "folk classical", but with a spare slow improv style that seemed to be an attempt to avoid being songlike, and mimic forest sounds. Almost like what old cartoon soundtracks sometimes sound like when a clarinet is imitating a boiling pot of water, but without being quite so polished, and I'm almost certain it was African. It seemed to me to a very artful attempt at miiroring the sounds of the forest coming alive, with great musical skill, just as good as any classical or jazz ensemble.
I love old blues or new that has that feeling, old jazz (Ellington!!!!) Dixieland especially when it's slow to med paced, Eclectic rock, even a little metal (love King's X) lots of acoustic singer songwriter stuff, classical that has blood in it, the somewhat new wave of trad Scando stuff with Nickleharpa and Sax etc, Bluegrass Country and Americana, I dream of being a horn player in a high awareness hiphop band and I'm workin on that one. South American and Cuban is very delicious sometimes....the list goes on and on and on.....oh yea, Tom Waits is a minor deity in my pantheon. I'd even go so far as to commit Idoltry.
The Musicians Connected site bears further investigation... thanks for that too.
You said:
Keep posting, keep playing, and, above all, follow your muse!
Agreed, you do the same!!
(WOW, listening to CB play Mozart while I write this. Amazing.)
Blessings,
Peter T.
Somewhere between the classical
and the blues, is the flower
of the indigenous.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2005-02-06 12:30
You poor sap...
You'll be stuck playing the Bass clarinet forever - now that your mates know you have one!
Best learn to double on cowbell and ocarina, for Weddings.
Search Dave Spiegelthal, a regular poster on this board, about the ins and outs of low clarinet playing. He's a straight shooter, and professional player in your lonely field...
FYI - Bass clarinet is MUCH different in feel and response to the smaller stix.
dspieg@earthlink.net
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-02-06 14:01
Well said S B, I also bow to Dave's knowledge/opinions/experience/humor re: bass cl, however its not totally a "lonely" existence, stuck on base/bass. I collect the Eb Alto cl and occasionally Sop Eb music and hope for another [better?] B C in our comm band. Our conductors frequently single me out to show others complic. rhythm patterns, and I've seen a bit of jealousy from some of the Bb's when I have some "juicy" harmony parts. YES, its a quite diff inst. Keep at it, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: woodchuck
Date: 2005-02-06 14:22
Hi Ron,
Alas, not knowing how to send the message, it is lost. It was addressed to "nowhere@woodwind.com" which I thought was odd, but I went with it. It went to the black hole where old clarinets either die or are turned into lamps.
I'm from Minneapolis Minnesota for now, but am planning to move to parts west and homestead soon. Gonna build a house of straw or mud or some such thing....
Thanks for the welcome! It's been great fun and very informative so far!
Where's home for you?
~Peter.
Somewhere between the classical
and the blues, is the flower
of the indigenous.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-06 14:26
woodchuck wrote:
> Hi Ron,
> Alas, not knowing how to send the message, it is lost. It
> was addressed to "nowhere@woodwind.com"
Which, indeed, is very strange since there's no such place around here (being that this is woodwind.org).
If you click on ron's name on his post you can find his email address. Ron allows it to be shown so people can get to him for personal messages via his real email address.
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Author: woodchuck
Date: 2005-02-06 14:30
Ha Ha, Mr Botch,
But I am an Ocarina player! And I have recently taken up the cowbell, but only in wild naked frenzied drumming at poet men's type gatherings. Someone has to keep those pagan drummers in time. Alas, I plan to do many an unorthodox thing with the bc, so I don't think the usual malaise that said players are plagued with applies. So, I would have to refute your title and say, "A Happy Sap am I", and I intend to remain so.
Surprise again, funny you should mention Dave, as I am aquainted with him, and just sent an email off the other day!
Thanks,
Peter.
Somewhere between the classical
and the blues, is the flower
of the indigenous.
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Author: woodchuck
Date: 2005-02-06 14:34
Ah,
Alas it was .org. "nowhere@woodwind.org"
Lots of messages there I bet.
Thanks,
Peter.
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Author: woodchuck
Date: 2005-02-06 14:36
BTW,
Love your use name.
"Perfect Day" or some such tune would be a good cover on Bass Clarinet...
~Peter.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-06 14:38
woodchuck wrote:
> Ah,
> Alas it was .org. "nowhere@woodwind.org"
> Lots of messages there I bet.
/dev/null ... the old electron's home.
I'f you've asked for email notification when someone adds to a thread you'll find all messages are from "nowhere@woodwind.org" since some people do not want to share their email address. You can always go to the thread online and see if their email address is available.
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Author: Low_Reed
Date: 2005-02-06 15:23
Talk about Perfect Days! At your suggestion, Peter, I just listened to that cut from Lou Reed's Transformer album. I agree with you completely. And I know just the two guys to try this on BC. Because I'm from St. Paul! So don't leave town just yet, OK?
Speaking of "classical that has blood in it," I really dig "Pictures at an Exhibition", as rendered by Mussorgsky/Ravel/Emerson, Lake and Palmer/Mekong Delta/Allyn Ferguson. And I have the sheet music for excerpts for 2 clarinets and piano. And I have a Jazz Duets for clarinet book that I've really enjoyed, by recording one line and playing the other against it. Monk, Miles, and more.
And I have an outstanding local clarinet repair person to recommend to you.
And you HAVE TO see/hear "Oedipus the King" at the Guthrie Theater, because it's a little-known fact that the "pit orchestra" is made up entirely of two members of the local new music group Zeitgeist: Heather Barringer on a wild variety of percussive instruments, including the vertically suspended soundboard of a grand piano; and Pat O'Keefe, on absolutely haunting bass and soprano clarinets. A riveting performance -- I saw it in previews from the balcony, and I scored a front row center seat to see it again this week. (It closes Feb. 13.)
Have you had a chance to groove on the bass clarinet in several cuts from Tom Waits' "Blood Money"?
We gotta talk...
-- Bruce
**Music is the river of the world!**
-- inspired by Tom Waits and a world full of music makers
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-02-06 23:44
Sorry about the lost e-mail, Peter. I don't mind giving out my e-mail address. If I don't like what shows up I just delete - no problem. Of course I look for senders I know or might know before sending them to the electronic 'round file'. But I'm sorry yours went astray. I posted my e-mail address above hoping such a tragedy will not recur should you decide to try again.
I reside in central California (Fair Oaks, right next to Sacramento) where straw houses are not uncommon nowadays. Someone discovered that recycling rice straw into homes made more sense than burning the stuff. It cut down on airbourne particulates (pollution) and some very nice, attractive as well as well-insulated homes of plastered (rice)straw have been catching people's interest and quite a lot of news (documentary type) coverage in recent years. I suppose they're being built elsewhere but I'm somewhat more aware of them around my own neighborhood.
Adobe is more popular in the southwest but not too uncommon this far north. I've thought that a house made of recycled CSOs (clarinet shaped objects) might capture someone's imagination by now but haven't seen or heard of one yet. Maybe difficult to get it to insulate properly.
- r b -
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