 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bkmorton
Date: 2005-07-15 18:04
Hey there,
I just wanted to see if anyone has experienced the same thing as I.
IN NO WAY IS THIS BLAMING THE BOARD. I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS FREE AND I APPRECIATE THE OPTION.
I posted a couple items on the board and I got responses from a couple people that wanted to pay with more than the actual amount (ex. barrel = $120/they wanted to pay $3000) They asked that I deposit it and send the money back to them via western union. When I told them that I wanted the specific amount, I never heard back.
Has this happened to anyone else? What would they benefit from with paying extra and getting the rest wired back to them? I do not get how their scam would work.
I received a check today for $3000 with out them explaining that they were going to pay extra. I plan on sending the check back. This is weird and unfortunate that they will not leave us clarinet Geeks to ourselves.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-07-15 18:12
The scam is that the check will be bad -- even if it appears to be certified, or a bank check. Usually it will come from a foreign country, which means that the fraud won't be discovered for several weeks, by which time the scam artist will be long gone. That's why they want you to wire the money, so they can get the money quickly and disappear. Your bank will charge your account, and you'll be out the money.
Your instincts were right. This kind of request is ALWAYS a scam. That's why Mark has put a specific warning, in red, about it on every page of the Classifieds area. http://test.woodwind.org/Classifieds/
Ken Shaw
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-07-15 18:19
It is actually pretty simple, and could take two forms. It takes a few days for checks to clear back through the Federal Reserve to the issuing bank. If you deposit a check today, your bank will place a hold on the amount until the funds are transferred. In the meantime, assuming you have the money in your account without the addition of their check (this doesn't work with people who are perpetually drawn down to pennies in their accounts), you have wired real money to them. A day or two later, the check bounces for insufficient funds, and you have neither the amount they "paid" nor the excess that you just wired away.
The other way is a little more insidious in some respects, which is that the check is real and the money is real. By doing it, you just made yourself a link in the chain of a money laundering enterprise. By washing the funds through your bank account and then Western Union as cash, the money comes back to them squeaky clean. Could be anything from drugs to terrorism. No matter what, you don't want to be part of it.
The transaction is 99.9% likely to be illegal and should be reported to the authorities. Talk to an officer at your bank and he/she can instruct you on what steps you should take.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2005-07-15 18:53
Is there a reliable way of receiving payment from overseas buyers that avoids the risk of fraud? What shipping methods work best for overseas?
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-07-15 18:57
PayPal (for those jurisdictions where it is available) works pretty well for international trade. Western Union can also be good, although you get killed on fees. All the major carriers (DHL, Fedex, UPS) offer international shipping. If memory serves, there are also international COD shipping options where you put collection in the hands of the carrier.
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2005-07-15 19:21
I was just selling my no-name clarinet, and I got an email from an interested guy. And we sent a couple messages back and forth. He was like "where should I send the payment" etc. And I could tell that his language may have been slightly off (not completely broken or weird), but I asked where he was located so I could get a final shipping price in case he wasn't in the US. And I also added that I wanted to be sure that he was a serious buyer interested in the clarinet, and that this wasn't some sort of scam-buy...
And he never responded back.
I would take that guy's $3000, and scam him and keep it! That'll teach him.
So, I want to know, what happens when you go ahead with a transaction like that? How are we scammed?
Just wondering.
--Contragirl
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2005-07-15 19:33
Hi: Re Scams. I put a wanted message in the classified for a metal Albert clarinet a few months ago. I received a reply in broken English with a picture of a very new looking nice Conn clarinet and nice case. Price was $300 or $400. I asked some questions about the horn for clarification (something didn't seem right). I received a reply that the writer was in Romania and needed the money; how about $135 and no shipping fee he or she said (but no answers to specific questions on the horn such as HP or LP etc.) I replied again with questions and never ever received another reply. There was something about the photo in the first message that looked familiar, and I found it on a site with the exact same picture and info. on (I believe) George Lewis and a couple of contemporary musicians who play metal clarinets for jazz! The messages just seemed to be really "off," so I guess both sellers and buyers must beware!
Best,
John
P. S. I later was offered one by a listmate, I bought it, and the experience was very good!
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-07-15 19:41
Well CG, if it is wire fraud, you send the scammer $3K in cash through Western Union and then his check bounces -- hence you are out $3K. If it is money-laundering, you've just participated in something very illegal, and could get prosecuted under RICO, the PATRIOT Act, any number of banking and securities laws, and other fun stuff if the guv'mint can establish you were a knowing participant. Not so much a scam as a really rotten end to your week.
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Author: bflatclarinetist
Date: 2005-07-16 04:47
Ouch, msloss. I actually didn't know about this scam, but thanks;I'll remember this for the future!
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2005-07-16 07:36
I was wondering earlier tonight as I was deleting spam from my inbox -- if you actually respond to one of the Nigerian "deposed official" emails and they end up cleaning you out of all your money, will they finally stop bothering you? It might be worth giving them my oh-so-vast fortune just to make them go away.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-07-16 13:24
Yeah I had someone enquiring about my barrel I put on the classifieds. He didn't ask many questions about it, he just wanted it ASAP and seemed to want to do anything in his power to get the whole thing going. He had poor english.
In the end I said I accept PayPal only and asked if he had an account, and never got another reply.
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-07-16 13:41
Morrigan,
Re: "I no longer care if you play Buffet or Leblanc."......what caused this change of attitude?
Hans (who plays Selmers)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-07-16 17:33
I had this experience when I listed a clarinet for sale on the board about a year ago. Same old routine--sent me an email offering me $7,000.00 for it and could I send it to the Netherlands right away. The "extra" money was to cover all shipping and customs charges because he didn't know how much that would be. Of course, I was asking less than $1,000.00 for the instrument. I told him I don't do overseas shipping and he said, "That's ok, I have someone who can come pick up the instrument from your location and ship it to me." That creeped me out. I told him I needed exact amount via PayPal to a confirmed address or no deal and that ended it.
The "I can send someone to your location to pick it up" part was a new twist to me. I live in Abilene, Texas...not exactly on the beaten path to the Netherlands. We're a good 3 hour drive from Dallas/Ft. Worth. Besides, I really didn't want to give out personal information after that.
I think there are scammers who watch all classified postings on the internet, hoping to find someone who doesn't sell things very often and don't have sophisticated ways to do business with them.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-07-16 18:19
>>>I told him I don't do overseas shipping and he said, "That's ok, I have someone who can come pick up the instrument from your location and ship it to me."
Brenda, I first started using Ebay about six months ago and had about 3 or 4 scam attempts. Some are just so stupid you wonder how they think they'll get away with it.
However, I'm interested in your refusal to do overseas delivery. I'm in Italy and have bought 5 clarinets and plenty of other things from the US. Being the honest person I am, I've always paid via Paypal and would never expect the other person to post the article before receiving payment. I always pay for insured delivery via USPS and have never had anything go missing. I've never met a seller who, on request, has refused to sell overseas. That's why the Ebay Feedback function is so useful! You can see what others think.
I was almost put off buying from the US very early on when I thought someone selling a sax MP was trying to scam me. I reported the emails to Ebay and to the person selling the MP only to discover that the young girl selling the MP was totally unfamiliar with Ebay (and PCs in general!!) and had been sending messages from another address. We soon sorted everything out and everyone was happy.
Now, I refuse to buy anything unless they accept Paypal. Funds are sent immediately and you can see when you have the money safely in your account.
So is there any reason for not selling overseas?
Steve
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-07-16 21:13
Steve,
Yes, there are good reasons I don't sell overseas. First of all, I've had some terrible experiences that cost me lots and lots of money when I first started selling clarinets and clarinet stuff on eBay in 1999. I sold a used Leblanc LL Bb clarinet on consignment from a friend's music store to a guy in Canada who spoke French (this was before it was easy to translate into your language via eBay's message system). My friend wanted $1,000.00 for it and it wasn't worth over $700.00. I finally reasoned with my friend to let me lower the reserve to $700.00 so it would sell. He said, "Fine if you are so sure you can sell it for $700.00 you buy it from me and sell it to him for that." I made the offer and the Canadian guy took it. I paid the dealer $700.00 for it and shipped it off to Canada via UPS (as the customer specified I should do.) A week later he called me on the phone to tell me off and I couldn't understand him...so he had his daughter send me an email telling me I was a total crook (I had busted my rear trying to help him get the instrument for a good price) and he was now going to have to pay over $200.00 in customs fees because I didn't say it was a gift and I should pay him $200.00 dollars. He raised a stink on every end of the stick. I didn't make a penney and in fact lost the listing fee and all the time and energy I had spent on it as well as a good mouthpiece that I had put in to "help his daughter get a good start as a musician." Oh, and because he knew it came from a big music store he demanded to be refunded the $200.00 even though I sent him a copy of his email where he had specified the way to send it to him.
That's only one of many bad experiences.
It's very difficult to insure and track overseas packages--also when I'm selling a high-dollar clarinet I want it to get to the new owner as fast as possible so we don't have a problem with leaky pads thanks to overseas shipping and temperature changes. It's hard enough to do stateside, let alone across the ocean.
I'm sure you're a wonderful buyer--most of my overseas contacts are (except the Canadian guy), however, I'm not a major music store with money to back up returns and repairs. Customs is another thing that I don't know too much about and really, really don't want to get into having to pay the money to the customs because someone claims it's my fault.
Paypal is great and that's the best way to do overseas transactions.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-07-16 21:48
>>>and he was now going to have to pay over $200.00 in customs fees because I didn't say it was a gift and I should pay him $200.00 dollars.
Brenda, that was HIS mistake, not yours. He was importing goods and expecting you to LIE for him! How on earth did he get your phone number?
Most goods I've had delivered from the US have been under the threshold for customs duties and most of those above have reached me with nothing more to pay.
I had two items though that arrived with a bill for tax. In both cases I paid without hesitation. The person selling the item asks a price and I pay it. Any import duties are the responsibility of the buyer.
I lived ten years in France so I'll be pleased to give you a few 'colourful' phrases for dealing with people like that.
But please don't refuse outright to sell abroad. Look at the person's Feedback very carefully and simply make it clear that they pay via Paypal and pay for postage.
>>>It's very difficult to insure and track overseas packages.
Not at all. I had one package that didn't arrive after three weeks. I was able to find the number on the internet tracking system. It was at the local depot. I picked it up myself.
Steve
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-07-17 17:19
He wasn't an isolated incident, and I agree that it was his fault--but he made my life quite miserable for a while. He got my phone number because I always give my customers my phone number. After all, I want them to be able to let me know if there's a problem.
If I ever have anything you're interested in, Steve (or others that frequent this board) I will be delighted to sell it to you via PayPal payment. You'll have to communicate with me first so I can change my PayPal settings to accept your payment.
I've shipped mouthpieces to Japan, Switzerland, Germany, Canada, etc. and had no problems. Usually it can be worked out if I know the buyer is honest. I think I would be a bit more nervous over an instrument.
Also, you have to realize I'm an individual who sells just a few hand-selected instruments a year because I enjoy helping out musicians. I'm not a big business person (and never want to be one) who is real savy about international trade.
Everyone should use caution to some degree with the scams going on out there (for both buyers and sellers). Have some contact with your seller or buyer and then from there needs to be a degree of trust when you're dealing online. Radar should be out for anyone who offers something that is "too good to be true" or offers you more money than you're asking.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-07-17 17:44
There are plenty of scams out there.
Often you can tell just by their initial e-mail with bad grammar.
Here's one:
Hello,
I saw your advert over the web and am much
interested in buying it. I live in UK,I will be
responsible for the shippment down to my location, so
please kindly write me back with your last offering
price.I will also need some of its recent pics,and
will like to know its present condition .I am
Looking forward to your soonest reply.
MY REGARDS...............
------------------------------------
This is a very valuable thread!!!
Post Edited (2005-07-17 19:16)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-07-17 17:50
[ We've had similar threads on this topic at least twice in the past few months. If we listed every variation on this topic it would get tedious REAL fast. It's time to put this one to rest - GBK ]
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