 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bnatural
Date: 2005-07-04 03:06
My specific question is, Does anyone know who the main clarinet player is now for The Producers. The one player, had this tone that I really really liked an I'm hoping to figure out who it is, mostly just so I can recognize the name if I see it again.
Is their a source that list what player is doing what? I know more then one person played clarinet in the show but, It seemed like one was "the" clarinet player, I believe he also played bass clarinet in the show.
Thanks
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-07-04 04:04
Bnatural
I read that about Jay Hassler, and the site said that Jay was a clarinetist with the Broadway show, "The Producers". Could it be him?? Hope this Helps!!
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-07-04 04:19
If I remember right:
The last time I played THE PRODUCERS, I subbed for Jay Hassler, the clarinet chair at the show. His book is:
Eb Clarinet
Bb Clarinet
Flute
Tenor Sax
(no Bass Clarinet)
There is, in fact, Bass Clarinet on the Reed 2 book, and that's Steve Greenfield's chair. His book is:
Bb Clarinet
Bass Clarinet
Flute
Alto Sax
I hope that helps.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-07-04 04:39
You might also check http://www.ibdb.com for Broadway cast and orchestra personnel. There's lots of good info there.
Here's the orchestra info from that site:
"Musical Coordinator: John Miller; Musical Supervisor: Glen Kelly; Conducted by Patrick S. Brady; Associate Conductor: Phil Reno; Concert Master: Rick Dolan; Woodwind: Vincent DellaRocca, Steven J. Greenfield, Jay Hassler, Alva Hunt and Frank Santagata; Trumpet: David Rogers, Nick Marchione and Frank Greene; Tenor Trombone: Dan Levine and Tim Sessions; Bass Trombone: Chris Olness; French Horn: Jill Williamson; Violin: Ashley D. Horne, Louise Owen, Karen M. Karlsrud and Helen Kim; Cello: Laura Bontrager; Harp: Anna Reinersman; String Bass: Robert Renino; Drums: Cubby O'Brien; Percussion: Benjamin Herman; Keyboard: Phil Reno."
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
Post Edited (2005-07-04 04:46)
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-07-04 04:47
I often think the whole doubling, tripling, quadrupling up in broadway shows is a very cheap way of getting an impossibly big orchestra out of only a small number of players ...
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-07-04 05:24
Hi diz:
You state:
"I often think the whole doubling, tripling, quadrupling up in broadway shows is a very cheap way of getting an impossibly big orchestra out of only a small number of players ..."
First of all, it's just "doubling," not tripling, etc. When we play more than one horn, it's a double, or 2 doubles, or 3 doubles, that's the way our contracts read here in NYC.
Secondly, paying doublers is not "very cheap" on Broadway. Doublers get paid very well, and work very hard for it. It's a little different from the professional symphony orchestra scene. There you play one or two horns, get paid well, but don't really do any "doubling."
The concept for contemporary Broadway shows is to write for smaller orchestras, this does make for more doubles. In the past, Broadway shows had larger orchestras, but there were still plenty of doublers. WEST SIDE STORY and A CHORUS LINE had 7 woodwind chairs, and each player had many doubles, along with much larger orchestras.
What is often the case nowadays is;
The composer, along with his chosen orchestrator, decide which chair to put certain doubles on to make the show work musically. Billy Brohn, our orchestrator at WICKED, spoke to many of us about the doubles he needed to write to make Stephen Schwartz's score work. We each play 4 or 5 doubles that Billy wrote with us in mind. The idea that our 17 instruments played at WICKED should be played by 17 different woodwind players is unthinkable on Broadway.
Broadway has always been known to feature some of the finest woodwind doublers anywhere. Doubling has become an "art," and it is appreciated by our audiences, friends, and the producers who pay the bills. They aren't saving costs, as much as really getting a lot of great music making for their money.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
Post Edited (2005-07-04 16:21)
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-07-04 05:51
John ... you clarify the NYC scene, thank you. I must say, those Big Apple pit orchestras are very, very impressive, to be sure.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-07-04 15:36
One of the humorous things about playing shows out here in the sticks is when you see how many players it takes to cover one of the parts from the original shows. While some of us follow the AFM lead and cover it all, I've seen college pits with four people covering portions of one book.
(It's never that way on the pro jobs, though. I have seen some weak play on some of the horns (contra alto clarinet once, bassoon and oboe a number of times, and so forth).
According to our current contract here in Houston, doublers get the usual additional spif per horn as named in the contract. Those of us that play the big horns also get a spif for transportation of the big ones. If you have baritone and bass clarinet on a job, that gives you a nice little premium for all of that extra humping stuff around. (Alto/tenor and clarinet doesn't count as a double, by the way...must be the Traypac case theory.)
My worst recent double was with a 1920's musical. No clarinet, only bass clarinet, baritone sax, and bassoon. I hate when they throw in the fag like that, particularly with quick horn changes. In one of the many iterations of Tea For Two that the show contained, I had a two bar rest to go from baritone to bassoon...try to do that "in a musical fashion" some time without having the bari on a roller stand (something that I refuse to do, as they destroy the horn in a big way).
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-07-04 16:15
You're right, Terry, the bigger horns pay a little more:
Those horns do pay "cartage" here in NYC. That not only applies to the big woodwind horns, but also Cello, Bass, Tuba, etc.
One strange old Local 802 rule here in NYC on doubling is:
One double paid for Sax...if you play another Sax or two, it doesn't pay another double! That is, you are only paid for 1 double no matter how many Saxes you're asked to play! That's a big drag!!!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-07-04 16:34
Ah, another reason to play baritone...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Steve B.
Date: 2005-07-04 16:56
As I recall when my dad played A Chorus Line on B-way there were 4 woodwind books.
1st- Flute,Piccolo,Bb Clarinet,Alto Sax
Joe Maggio, Harvey Estrin on Wed. Matinees (Mitchell Estrin's Father)
2nd- Oboe, English Horn,Bb Clarinet, Tenor Sax
Norman Wells
3rd- Flute,Eb Clarinet, Bb Clarinet,Bass Clarinet,Alto Sax
Buzz Brauner
4'th- Bassoon,Bb Clarinet,Contra-Bass Clarinet,Bari Sax
Marvin Roth
A Chorus Line was a unique situation when it opened in 1975 because it was one of the first shows not to have any String chairs. There were 17 musicians and 8 paid 'Walker' chairs to satisfy the 25 musician Local 802 minimum of the Shubert theater. The 'Walkers' got paid whether they played or not, and were supposed to show up each night before curtain to sub in an emergency if one of the regulars missed the downbeat which never happened.
Steve Brauner
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-07-04 17:08
Hi Steve:
I'm sorry you mentioned the old "walker" situation on Broadway. It no longer exists, and hasn't for many years. It was an unfortunate outgrowth of larger orchestras being downsized to save money for the producers. It was never a musical issue, just an attempt to save jobs. In any case "walkers" are not on Broadway now, and haven't been for many years.
Yes, Steve, your Father, Buzz, played A CHORUS LINE, with many doubles, and WEST SIDE STORY did originally have 7 woodwind chairs, sorry for that confusion.
Have a fun Forth of July!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2005-07-04 17:21
I've seen The Producers on Broadway five times [so far] not only because it's a great show, that score is just plain wonderful. I'm planning another trip to New York soon and I'd like to see a few shows while there. Mr. Moses since you're our outstanding expert on the scene what shows would you suggest where the Clarinet plays a substantial role? OK, any role? Thank you..
Fred
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Author: Steve B.
Date: 2005-07-04 17:35
Well, there's always Fiddler on the Roof, where a live onstage Klezmer clarinetist almost gets trampled during the Wedding/Riot scene :-)
Steve
Post Edited (2005-07-04 17:37)
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-07-04 17:46
"An outstanding expert," well thanks fredackerman!
Actually, I've be around for a while, so after being involved with bringing in over 25 shows to Broadway, I do know a little about the scene here.
Try to see:
WICKED (John Moses, clar.)
PHANTOM OF THE OPERA (Matt Goodman, clar.)
BEAUTY AND THE BEAST (KeriAnn DeBari, clar.)
FIDDLER ON THE ROOF (Jonathan Levine, clar.)
THE PRODUCERS (Jay Hassler, clar.)
THE 25th ANNUAL SPELLING BEE (Rick Heckman, clar.)
They are just some of the exciting shows on Broadway this season. Also, stop down to the pit and say "Hi" to the clarinet player there.
BTW:
Tonight, July 4th, I'm playing first clarinet with the NY Pops on NBC at 9:00pm (EST), for the MACY'S annual fireworks presentation in NYC. It should be a fabulous display, and the orchestra, under Skitch Henderson, sounds great!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2005-07-04 20:11
I have just a bit of clarification about the show scene here in Houston. We have two very fine show orchestras, the Theatre Under the Stars Orchestra and the Houston Broadway Series Orchestra. Actually, more than 50% of the musicians involved with these groups are in both of these orchestras. We have HIGHLY skilled woodwind doublers in both groups, including orchestral level oboe and bassoon doublers. I have had the joy of working in these fine groups for the past 30 years with some of the finest doublers to be found anywhere in the USA . The premiere oboe doubler with these groups plays orchestral level oboe and English horn, excellent clarinet family instruments and all of the saxes. He can play bebop on tenor, Klezmer on the clarinet and take a beautiful oboe solo. The premiere bassoon doubler here can play classical saxophone in the Houston Symphony, lead alto for any big band, baritone sax, flute , piccolo, orchestral level contra and bass clarinet, and plenty of dixieland clarinet and classical clarinet as well as the highest symphonic level bassoon. The skill that it takes to do this is impressive at least and phenomenal at best. These skills are most evident in recent tours of the Producers, A Chorus Line, West Side Story and many others.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-07-04 20:24
Hi Chetclarinet:
It sounds like you have a great scene down there. Also Houston has a wonderful Symphony Orchestra, and an active chamber music program for your enthusiastic music community.
I believe Houston will be getting the WICKED tour sometime soon, so enjoy our fun show when it arrives.
I believe Jeff Lerner worked the music scene in Houston way back when. Is Jeff still around?
PS I found it: WICKED will be in HOUSTON, TX at,
Hobby Center for the Performing Arts from Oct. 26 – Nov. 13, 2005
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Covalaga
Date: 2005-07-04 22:54
Fascinating reading about all the Broadway musicians and doubling. I play in many shows for the local Amateur Dramatics in U.K. and depending on the musical being staged, we, the woodwinds have to play all the parts 'asis' from the Broadway shows. You might be lucky with Fiddler with one clarinet, but ''42nd Street'' on 1st woodwind, there are 6 instruments to play. I am not too sure, but one of the shows, apart from the normal doubles, even had trumpet as a woodwind double. Incidentally we have one orchestral rehearsal, one dress rehearsal--then live. I am always impressed with the calibre of the local musicians.
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-07-04 23:47
This is, indeed a fascinating thread.
Mr. Moses - apart from "A Chorus Line" what other (well known) broadway musicals are scored using contrabass/alto clarinet, that you can recall?
thanks
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-07-05 00:24
You guys are getting tough, and it's a Holiday!
Here are a few:
THE PRODUCERS (EEb Contra)
BIG (EEb Contra)
MARIE CHRISTINE (BBb Contra)
BRIGADOON (EEb Contra)
TITANIC (EEb Contra)
THE WILL ROGERS FOLLIES (EEb Contra)
Those are just the ones that come to mind, there are lots more. The shows I've mentioned, are the ones I've played, and remember the Contra actually being used.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
Post Edited (2005-07-05 00:26)
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-07-05 04:06
Add to the above ON THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, where the horn is used for precisely one number, Our Private World. An ordeal to drag it down into the pit, to set it up and keep it out of the way while not playing it, and to be "up" for the part, which is right after interlude on another horn.
To add insult to injury, the part could have been written for bass clarinet with little change. You never know what's going through the arranger's mind.
The BRIGADOON that I've done (a zillion years ago up in Illinois) didn't have contra-alto (or bass, which is what the contra-alto really is), but that was the "original" version, not a revival.
To add some clarification, I'm in the "second tier" down here, and have not been around long enough (only ten odd years in town) to fit into the pit for the local versions of the touring shows. (I did used to do this years and years ago in Saint Louis.) And, the locals who do these pro operations are first rate.
Where I run into the indifferent bassoon and oboe playing is when doing college, private high school and amateur theatrical work. (Same music as on Broadway; just don't look at the reviews as you pocket the fees.) In these situations, the clarinet and sax and flute folks are good enough, but those double reeds are a challenge for the players involved (or their sax and clarinet skills are on the weak side).
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2005-07-05 14:55
John--Jeff Lerner is still very much around--he is active with both Broadway and Tuts orchestras here, still teaches part-time at the University of Houston and plays great! I work with him often and always enjoy his musicianship and professional work ethic. --- there is a certain "bonding" that is very strong with pit players--we often help each other and occaisonally cover a difficult passage or doubling moment for another player. Thanks for the "Wicked " dates and info!
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-07-05 15:08
Thanks, Chetclarinet:
Say hello to Jeff from Virgil Blackwell (also from Houston), and John Moses from NYC. It's been years, and I don't have his email or phone number.
Thanks,
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-07-05 15:56
John M.,
didn't I read somewhere that you guys recorded the July 4th music ahead of time and only "appeared" to be playing on the NBC broadcast? I have nothing really against this practice, but just wanted to confirm.
if true, what was it like "lip synching"?
And, in re: doubling - why are A clarinets (and C clarinets) excluded from the doubling premium (under Single Engagement Classical Wage Scales & Conditions), but English Horns are not? An outrage!
_________________________________________________
I have this fantasy that Mozart wrote for so many different keyed clarinets and basset horns as a kind of new technology promotion. Perhaps there was even some payola involved from the nascent clarinet manufacturing industry. Of course, this fantasy is destroyed by the fact that Stadler actually borrowed money from poor Mozart.
Post Edited (2005-07-05 16:18)
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-07-05 17:44
Yes, larryb, it's common practice in the recording business to "pre-record" most "live" broadcasts. The outdoor conditions usually make recording difficult and imperfect by modern standards. So, pre-records are the way to go these days.
We did play a live concert in Bryant Park prior to the MACY'S spectacular on July 4th. We played in the pouring rain to a small but appreciative audience. We were filmed at that concert, but they used our studio track for the NBC broadcast on July 4th.
Mariah Carey was, in fact, "lip synching" during our broadcast. We were not at the site, our concert was in NYC's Bryant Park.
Again, it is common practice, for many years now, to pre-record music for TV.
FYI:
With regard to doubling on clarinets;
A and Bb clarinets are not a double on classical gigs, but on all commercial work it is, in fact, a double! I was the first to insist on a double for the Broadway show INTO THE WOODS, which requires both A and Bb clarinets for the entire show. Now it is an industry practice to pay for all extra clarinets as doubles on Broadway (but not Saxophones!). The A clarinet is usually not required for most commercial & jingle work here in NYC, but when it comes up, we all get the double as required by Union contract.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2005-07-05 21:39
Mr. Moses, I really don't care how you guys did the music last night, it sounded wonderful! I see the Pops lives up to its name as all the music was crowd (and me) pleasing. Thanks for the heads up. Also thanks for the list of Broadway shows, I will obtain tickets for a few. Happy 4th..
Fred
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