 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-05-25 12:47
Hi guys
Well I'm in my final year at college and I've got post-graduate study on my mind for next year, as well as a change of teacher.
I've got two places in mind and both have huge pro's and con's, and I've done lists and asked friends and spoken to family about it but it's still just too hard to choose. Obviously I will be auditioning for both places and may only get offered one or none, but in case I get offered both, I won't know what to do.
What factors should one consider when chosing somewhere to study? Assuming you take into account teacher, facilities and the program itself, what else?
Thanks heaps!
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-05-25 17:25
I'm in the same boat, but looking for composition grad schols. Some further things to look at: Other students. Friendliness. Atmosphere. Weather. Quality of ensembles. Other teachers you might come into contact with. Attitudes toward new music. Location.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: SueSmith
Date: 2005-05-25 17:26
I believe you were the poster questioning moving to the US to study. I'll assume both schools in question are in the same country...to avoid the monetary discussions.
So, if I could do it all over again...
Choose the school that has the best teacher for you...but
If teachers at both schools are in equal standing to your needs, pick the school with the BEST orchestral opportunities. A school with a few orchestra's...not just one. I'd research - if possible, the number of bassoonists and horn players (as a grad student, playing in a wind quintet is a phenomenal learning tool). Look at the schools alumni list...faculty, masterclass lists.
As a grad student (which is what I believe you will be) connections are VERY important if you plan to continue as a pro. Not only faculty, but those pro's you meet in masterclasses and as guest conductors.
Some say reputation of the school matters...I'd say more as a grad than undergrad.
Talk to the students if you can when you visit to audition. I don't mean the school appointed butt kissers...but the average kid in the trenches. They'll tell you the real deal...
Every school has its drawbacks...but, find a school that treats its wind players well. Question the school about the number of masterclasses for clarinetists, their orchestral policies...etc.
I think in the end, your gut will tell you the correct choice - if you get the opportunity to do so.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-05-27 19:25
Morrigan -
It depends on what you're looking for.
When you went from high school to college or conservatory, it was a big change. In high school, everything was in bite-size pieces and came at a comfortable pace. All the answers came out even. In college, there were more difficult problems, and even the smallest college has more going on that you can possibly do. In college, you have a choice of courses and majors, rather than having everything in lockstep.
Moving to grad school is just as big a change. As you go along, you have to create your own curriculum. When you go for a Ph.D., you create your own course and write a dissertation that is your own textbook. While you will have an adviser, you need much more discipline than you did as an undergraduate and will have to become a self-starter. You'll also need to expand into new areas, such as being a Teaching Assistant.
Also, in grad school everything is focused on preparing for AND FINDING a job. For this, you need a mentor (a/k/a "rabbi") -- a professor who is well known, who knows where the job openings are, and whom people come to for recommendations. This is just one aspect of the larger area of networking -- getting to know everyone, and being known and liked by everyone. At this level, everybody is competent. Getting most jobs, and practically all of the good ones, depends on knowing the market and cultivating personal relationships.
In college you played in orchestra, band and small groups. In grad school, you have to create your own performance opportunities. That means finding music, people to play with and places to play. It means playing everywhere you can find -- museums, bank lobbies, senior citizen centers, churches, bandstands in the park, the bus station. Put together small groups for background music at parties, conventions and receptions. Volunteer to do the national anthem at sports events. All of this will be frustrating and feel below you, but it gets you visible, and people will think of you when they need music.
If you want to teach academic courses at the college level, you'll need a Ph.D. from a leading academic school. This is where you meet the good people and find the powerful rabbis. Since academic positions require research and publishing, you need to start publishing as soon as possible -- in the campus newspaper, in your home town paper, in the PennySaver. Volunteer to write program notes and work your way into writing them for money. Write record and concert reviews and circulate them among your friends for comments and suggestions. Read the music scholarly journals, bone up on an article that interests you and write a letter to the editor, or to the author. Create bibliographies. Start with, say, a notebook discography of all the clarinet records in the library, or the articles in the library on Brahms's clarinet works. (My wife did a bibliography of materials on early music performance practice that got published and gave her career a big boost.)
If you want to be a clarinet teacher rather than a classroom teacher, a D.M.A. is probably good enough. Once again, you need to find your rabbi -- this time one who knows where the college teaching openings are. You'll also have to learn to teach. Start taking on students now, and find a teacher who can give you guidance. The best teachers are often not the best players. Great players are "naturals," who do it without thinking. They often have trouble explaining what they do. A teacher who's had to struggle to become good knows exactly what's needed and can impart it to you.
If you have what it takes to be a performer, you might not want to go to grad school at all. Instead, go to a well-known teacher/performer, who knows where the openings are, etc. Daniel Bonade was famous for placing his Curtis and Juilliard students in top orchestras. Stanley Drucker teaches a few finished professional players. Steve Girko, who studied with him, told me he does nothing at all on technique, reeds or equipment. It's all intensive coaching on repertoire, in minute detail (in this particular solo, you're in octaves with the 1st flutist, who will often go sharp on this particular note -- here's the fingering to use) and how things work in the orchestral life.
As a performer, at least at the beginning, most of your work will come from "commercial" music -- dances, weddings, musicals, Holiday on Ice. For those, you'll need to play as much sax as clarinet, and be able to play in many non-classical styles. (Our own John Moses is a super classical and jazz sax player.) You'll also get more work if you play another instrument at a professional level. Flute is most common, but oboe and bassoon are rarer and create more work. It also helps to learn the basics of conducting.
Grad school is exhausting. It also uses your musical energy, leaving you with less time and desire to play the clarinet. Many creative people take work completely different from their art. A friend who's a fine bassoonist works as a high school science teacher. The life of professional music is tough. You need something to fall back on. There's nothing wrong at all with getting an accounting or pharmacy degree. I became a lawyer, though that may be going too far.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-05-27 20:11
Something about Ken's post seemed contrary to my experience and approach and so I wanted to offer a different view. By postgraduate I am assuming that you are refering to a Masters degree in music (probably Clarinet performance).
In deciding on a graduate school, I would consider something the opposite of my undergrad experience. If you went to school in a big city with a lot of hustle and bustle, try something a little slower paced. If there were big orchestra experiences, try something more towards chamber music. I would consider varying my experience (not necessarily jazz to classical, clarinet to saxophone, rather hectic to slower or large ensemble to small ensemble focus.)
Not knowing your experience...Generically, I think grad school should be used to refine skills towards more sensitive playing as in chamber music. Consider the school that has more chamber music focus or a teacher that emphasizes more chamber music experiences. At the University of Missouri at Kansas City where I did my Masters, I was a member of the graduate fellowship woodwind quintet--it changed my playing and musical sensitivities.
Unless you plan to be in commercial music and scrounging for every job you can to make ends meet, I would not spend the needed time to become proficient on flute and or saxophone. Saxophone is close enough that if you spent a little time on your own, you could get by with most jobs where you were filling in. Spend the time on the clarinet family.
Also, whether you are planning a career as a teacher of clarinet, classroom stuff or both, a DMA will do you find. You do NOT need a Ph.D to teach college music. If you want to head up a college music history department or music composition department, then you may want more specialization that comes with a Ph.D or other special study. Unless that is your plan, don't worry about the Ph.D, get the DMA. The only area I can see your needing a Ph.D to be competitive in at the college teaching level is Education. I would then assume that you have an undergrad degree in Education and auditioning for a Masters degree program may not be about being a competitive clarinet player except as such to win a clarinet teaching position.
A lot of assuming I know. ![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif)
Those are some of my suggestions. Let us know how the auditions go and what you choose.
Take care,
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-05-27 21:10
Hi,
Two points I'd like to make in the contrary.
1. I have never been very excited about a student going right from their first degree to graduate school. One needs to find out what the world of work in their field holds for them first. Then an intelligent and more insightful decision can be made.
2. Robert, about your statement "The only area I can see your needing a Ph.D to be competitive in at the college teaching level is Education." I can't agree if you are talking about college teaching in general. In education, the Ed.D. may be the preferred degree unless the individual is in Research & Statistics, then a Ph.D. is the ticket. In several state universities where I have been a faculty memeber (not in music) the bulk of the terminal degrees in music are still the Ph.D.
HRL
Post Edited (2005-05-27 23:06)
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Author: SueSmith
Date: 2005-05-28 04:56
Hank Lehrer wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Two points I'd like to make in the contrary.
>
> 1. I have never been very excited about a student going right
> from their first degree to graduate school. One needs to find
> out what the world of work in their field holds for them first.
> Then an intelligent and more insightful decision can be made.
Personally, I wish I was allowed time off between HS and college rather than undergrad to grad. I was only 17 when I entered college...the first time around. Intellectually advanced, but emotionally very young. I ended up leaving at the end of my sophmore year and didn't complete my undergrad degree until I was in my mid 20's.
However, I do agree with taking time off if you need to be 120% prepared to audition for a top rate grad school. Your final year of undergrad can be a killer, with recitals to plan, applications to get out...and auditions to prepare. The worst thing to do would be to burn out in mid December, just before auditions in January/February.
Somehow, I do find my practice time more efficient since my work schedule is set, unlike when I was in school...sometimes the only time available to practice was between 11pm and 2am.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-05-28 07:52
i didn't go to "grad school" until i was 26- this turned out to be too late (as i didn't have any quality teaching before then).... and i hung around university in the US for 4 years, making contacts in the US (not much good if i'm going to live in NZ) and losing touch with the NZ scene.
i just talked to an IU (Bloomington) Bassoon gradate, she mentioned that while there's fewer work opportunities in smaller towns like B, the cost of living is much much less that if you go New York. i am mentioning this because i think when Morrigan posted about going to the US, i mentioned the lack of oppertunities in small university towns as a disadvantage- i just wanted you to get the positive spin (and i do highly reccomend the teachers at IU!!!!!!!!!)
if you're going to decide where to go next, you need to think about what you have learnt- what do you think/know you still need to learn?
one problem is, for us to make suggestions we need to know what your shortcommings are.... and you may not be able to post that without offending your current teacher.
My teacher here in NZ before i left taught me NOTHING about tone, about technique, about any of the mechanics of clarinet playing. His teaching focussed on my positive attributes, and ignored my shortcommings. i chose my first US teacher partly on financial grounds, and partly on his reputation as a PEDAGOGUE rather than as a performer (though i found good reviews of his playing).
i hope that this is helpful- i'd say, study in the US is great, but you have some fab teachers in Aussie, i don't think you really need to leave that badly. If i were you, i'd try to do something like the Kal Opperman course that was organised a year or so back- don't know if it's still on every year? Go to the US for a month and have lessons/master classes etc. But do your Graduate degree at Bris Con, or Sydney Con etc They have some fine teachers! (and better surfing, i had to say that!!!!)
donald
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-05-28 10:31
Hank wrote, "2. Robert, about your statement "The only area I can see your needing a Ph.D to be competitive in at the college teaching level is Education." I can't agree if you are talking about college teaching in general. In education, the Ed.D. may be the preferred degree unless the individual is in Research & Statistics, then a Ph.D. is the ticket. In several state universities where I have been a faculty memeber (not in music) the bulk of the terminal degrees in music are still the Ph.D."
With the italicized caveat, I will concede to your point. I was, however, refering to a music career at the college teaching level. Also, I'm not fully aware of the different degree descriptions available for specific fields--that is why I suggested, "If you want to head up a college music history department or music composition department, then you may want more specialization that comes with a Ph.D or other special study."
Take care,
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-05-28 12:06
Hi,
SueSmith: Sounds like a little time off would have been a good idea. As I said above, one should see what the world of work holds for them before committing to a significant career/academic path.
Robert: I knew what you meant. But in reality, there are often very subtle differences between the degree descriptions which are a major part of the academic culture. It was like when I was in the Army, a Spec 4 was not thought of in the same way as a Corporal although both were E-4s. In academe, there is a strong feeling in each field as to what constitutes a terminal degree. Sometimes, just having a doctorate is not enough but it must be in the right field for the position. Some academic departments can be quite cavalier about this at hiring time (PhD, DMA, DSc, etc.).
HRL
PS I always say that my Arts & Science colleagues are a big bunch of elitist snobs (they have similar retorts about me being just too egalitarian):-).
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