 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: michael
Date: 2000-02-23 11:56
Around August of '99 I went to a jazz concert featuring Al Jareau. His opening acts were Chris Botti (trumpet), and Dave Koz (sax.) I know that tastes change, but why did the clarinet disappear so completely from the pop music world?
There are lots of front men playing sax (Syro Gyra etc.),
it just seems that there could be touring acts out there
with lead clarinet. Saxophones just seem to have taken over. Ken Peplowski has a swing band, but that is a different market.
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Author: James Marioneaux
Date: 2000-02-23 12:44
I was at that concert too, if you went to the one in Houston. Dave Koz is a great player. You are right in wondering where the clarinet players are. There must be more pepole like Eddie Daniels who has the jazz thing down and could front a band. Since Glenn Miller, Artie Shaw, and some of those other greats have passed, I am not sure who we have to take their places. It also seems that sometimes clarinetists look down their noses at others who play jazz. You have made an interesting observation.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-02-23 14:50
I wonder whether the predominance of saxes in jazz has anything to do with the fact that the shape of a saxophone lends itself so well to forming the letter "J". Take a look at the advertisements for jazz records, concerts, etc. and notice how often the letter "J" is a sax. I think this constant association sets up an expectation in the collective mind of the public.
Any graphic artists on this BB? Try a bit of subversion! Use a clarinet for the top part of an exclamation point: "JAZZ!"
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2000-02-23 16:38
Perhaps, it's a volume problem.
Try to play jazz together with trumpets and trombones, the sax can reach their volume more easy than the clarinet can do.
I heard from a professional clarinettist who was searching for a mouthpiece he could 'raise' his volume for a 'jam session' (all of the 'combo' were professional players). Finally he ended up with an alto sax mouthpiece adapted to the clarinet - really hard to play in tune, he said, but still possible to control it - and finally he allmost 'blew away' the trumpets.
Well, I own a 'jazz mouthpiece' for my basset horn (alto clarinet type, 1.8 mm * 28 mm), too, but I cannot reach at all the volume of a trumpet.
Perhaps, you should try to play jazz clarinet with a mouthpiece of approx. 1.8 mm tip opening and 30 mm table length. Could be hard to get good reeds for this.
Yours,
Arnold, the basset hornist
P.S. ever head a basset horn 'swinging'?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-02-23 17:48
A shrewd observation, Arnold, we touched on the potential volume of saxes in our posts under Alto Jazz below. I like the analogies, Lelia, re;j and an alto and! and our cl!Don
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Author: paul
Date: 2000-02-23 18:52
Wide open jazz cl mouthpieces can really belt out the tunes. I just don't know too many contemporary folks with these wide open mouthpieces that use them to keep up with a loud and brassy jazzy combo of trumpet and sax. I personally believe that a clarinet can keep up with such a group, especially for Dixieland jazz, which is about as loud and brassy as they come.
What we really need is a virtuoso clarinetist to come onto the scene with a genuine pop hit to revive the clarinet as a contemporary musical instrument. That usually takes a huge roll of the dice for luck, but who knows? It could happen. I look forward to that day.
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Author: Donn
Date: 2000-02-23 20:25
Pete Fountain and Eddie Daniels are still alive and well.
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Author: Gary Van Cott
Date: 2000-02-23 20:28
The clarinet has never been a section instrument in jazz. It has been a solo instrument and is important in styles like Dixieland. But once the development of the big band started (at least as early as the 1920s) the sax has been the main woodwind instrument.
There were big bands in the 30s and 40s where the entire sax section would switch to clarinet for some pieces or parts of pieces. Hal Kemp's band featured clarinets playing in some sort of megaphone device. It had holes to stick the hands in.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-02-23 20:36
Donn wrote:
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Pete Fountain and Eddie Daniels are still alive and well.
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Along with Peanuts Hucko and Buddy DeFranco last I looked.
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Author: michael
Date: 2000-02-24 02:08
Paul is right that it takes a hit to really get the
market going again. I think Eddie Daniels has come the
closest lately. I would love to see him tour with a band
like Dave Kox. The record companies control so much.
What we need is a great clarinetist who looks like a rock star. There are lots of people on this BB--somebody get busy and write a hit song and get a record deal! <g> Michael
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2000-02-24 06:09
paul wrote:
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...
What we really need is a virtuoso clarinetist to come onto the scene with a genuine pop hit to revive the clarinet as a contemporary musical instrument. That usually takes a huge roll of the dice for luck, but who knows? It could happen. I look forward to that day.
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And I would like to hear jazz played with a woodwind ensemble - clarinets, oboes, bassoons, flutes (perhaps english horn, basset horn, quint bassoon, contra basson, alto and bass clarinet, tarogato and alto flute, too)
Arnold, the basset hornist
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Author: maureen
Date: 2000-02-24 07:47
My daughter has recently joined the edinburgh schools training jazz orchestra playing clarinet,but has been told that if she wants to progress to the main band she will have to take up sax,and it should be tenor as they have so many altos.is shame as there are 2 or 3 really good clarinet players there.
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Author: michael
Date: 2000-02-24 11:46
Arnold the basset hornist wrote:
And I would like to hear jazz played with a woodwind ensemble - clarinets, oboes, bassoons, flutes (perhaps english horn, basset horn, quint bassoon, contra basson, alto and bass clarinet, tarogato and alto flute, too)
Arnold, the basset hornist
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Arnold, that would be pretty cool. I love classical music, but this combination playing jazz would be a blast to watch. Michael
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Author: michael
Date: 2000-02-24 11:52
maureen wrote:
My daughter has recently joined the edinburgh schools training jazz orchestra playing clarinet,but has been told that if she wants to progress to the main band she will have to take up sax,and it should be tenor as they have so many altos.is shame as there are 2 or 3 really good clarinet players there.
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See! It is a conspriracy. As far as the volume problem, I noticed that Eddie Daniels had some kind of microphone attached to the bell with the tip over the holes on his clarinet. His projection with an entire orchestra behind him was great.
Maureen, that is a shame that your daughter will have to move to a saxophone to keep in that group.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-02-24 15:01
I had some cl choir experience earlier, and we had some quite jazzy pieces which were much fun but tough! I'm a believer that most cl'ists should have some facility with the saxes, if only to clearly explain the difference between a cylindrical bore [12ths overblown] and a conical bore [octaves overblown], musical physics!! Don
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-02-24 17:18
Don Berger wrote:
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I had some cl choir experience earlier, and we had some quite jazzy pieces which were much fun but tough! I'm a believer that most cl'ists should have some facility with the saxes, if only to clearly explain the difference between a cylindrical bore [12ths overblown] and a conical bore [octaves overblown], musical physics!! Don
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I agree with that. I double on saxes and think they're great instruments. Sax can go along *with* the clarinet -- doesn't have to "take over" or replace the clarinet. I think that learning the sax is actually making me a better clarinet player, because I've been putting a lot more thought into how each instrument works, the differences between them and how to get the best I can out of each of them. Out of wariness that I might revert to a sax embouchure or sax fingerings (or sax something else -- there are really quite a lot of differences) when I'm playing clarinet, or vice-versa, I'm playing in a more alert state of mind now than before and seem to keep my concentration at a higher level throughout the practice session instead of slacking off and coasting as much as I used to. I don't think I've ever seen a complaint from a musician who regretted developing some versatility.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-02-25 02:12
A group out at the college playing antique style instruments did this a couple years ago. The man with all the music folders was late getting there so they grabbed some Dixieland style jazz books that were there and started horsing around. Tuba was played on a serpent horn (new reproduction with four flapper keys, two finger holes), trumpet part on something that looked like a krumhorn only it was straight, trombone on its predesessor the sacbutt, percussion on a drum like an Irish bodran, a lute, and a couple more that I'm not familiar with. They had a ball playing stuff like "Ring Dem Bells, Sweet Georgia Brown, etc" till their music folders arrived.
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Author: William
Date: 2000-02-25 14:51
To Arnold, The Bassett Man--
Regarding swing'n bassett horns, the jazz professor at the UW of Wi in Madison has been known to play some pretty impressive jazz on his. He specializes on the saxes, but was a "serious" NY City clainetist before coming to Wi to teach. Every hear jazz played on a contra-bass clar--I have.
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Author: Justice
Date: 2000-02-28 20:58
Ya' know,
The complaint that clarinetists have about not being able to play in the jazz bands is pretty much the same as the one from saxophonists about not being able to play in orchestra.
Justice
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-02-28 22:53
Justice wrote:
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Ya' know,
The complaint that clarinetists have about not being able to play in the jazz bands is pretty much the same as the one from saxophonists about not being able to play in orchestra.
Justice
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I believe I readh that some French composers did try.
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2000-02-29 07:19
Willie wrote:
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A group out at the college playing antique style instruments did this a couple years ago. The man with all the music folders was late getting there so they grabbed some Dixieland style jazz books that were there and started horsing around. ...
Unforunately no recording available, I expect.
Arnold (the basset hornist)
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2000-02-29 07:25
Justice wrote:
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Ya' know,
The complaint that clarinetists have about not being able to play in the jazz bands is pretty much the same as the one from saxophonists about not being able to play in orchestra.
Justice
Dee wrote:
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I believe I readh that some French composers did try.
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The most famous classical alto sax solo I know is in the L'Arlesienne Suite No. 1 by George Bizet.
Arnold (the basset hornist)
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Author: Justice
Date: 2000-02-29 20:55
Yeah,
It's interesting though. In jazz, most of the time, the clarinet is used primarily as a solo voice. The same is tru with orchestral music that uses saxophone. Although the Bizet does give the saxophone the opertunity to play with the rest of the ensemble in a few passages.
Even the French composers that used the saxophone relegated it to solo voice. Unless there are some modern composers (which there probably are) that are using a full saxophone section in orchestra, there's not a whole lot out there in terms of oppertunities for saxophonists to join in the festivities with the rest of the orchestra. Composers seem to have frogoten all about the fact that Adolph Sax originally intended the saxophone for orchestral use.
So, we have two instruments here: clarinet and saxophone. One is widly used in the orchestra and one is widly used in the jazz band. One has some solo oppertunities in the jazz band and one has a few solo oppertunities in orchestra. With the players on both insturments wanting to expand into the ensemble that they have the least representation in.
Also, remember that with few exceptions, most other woodwinds don't get much representation in jazz. Flute, oboe, bassoon, and the family doubles therin. There are also not a whole lot of brass instruments in the jazz tradition othere than trumpet and trombone. Horn, tuba, euphonium, etc...are all represented, but are far and few between.
Justice
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-03-01 16:03
Justice wrote:
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Also, remember that with few exceptions, most other woodwinds don't get much representation in jazz. Flute, oboe, bassoon, and the family doubles therin. There are also not a whole lot of brass instruments in the jazz tradition othere than trumpet and trombone. Horn, tuba, euphonium, etc...are all represented, but are far and few between.
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It's interesting that the oboe hasn't caught on more as a jazz instrument. It's so loud and piercing that it could compete with the trumpet.
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Author: Justice
Date: 2000-03-01 21:03
Actually,
I do have several recordings of big name jazz musicians using the oboe. The biggest of them is a recording of the Cannonbal Adderly Sextet. Yusef Latif plays the blues on oboe, it's a whole solo feture. Interesting. But, I think I might rather listen to a different timbre wail on the blues. Somthing a little more powerful, with more emotion in it. But, not bad.
Justice
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